Freeconomy Blog
Wed
28 Oct
My impending dilemma
In four weeks time my year without money officially comes to an end. At no point, including this current moment, in the last eleven months have I known whether or not I would continue living without money past the fourth season, which is due to end on 29th Nov, the day after Buy Nothing Day 2009.
I am 100% certain that I will live without money long-term, within a community of people who choose to do the same, and starting that process will be one of my main focuses in a few weeks time (though how we go about it is still up for debate, and there are huge obstacles to overcome). The question I am now asking myself though - and I guess all of you - is whether or not I should continue to live moneyless in the meantime? Given all I have spoken about over the last year, it would seem that the only answer I could give without looking like a prat would be yes, but it is not quite as obvious as that question would first seem! I'll explain, a little further on...
Firstly - my heart says a huge YES, as do many parts of my head. I really don't want to go back to the world of money. I mean, REALLY! It would feel weirdly strange to have cash in my pocket again, even weirder to go into a shop. Its amazing how quickly something that once seemed the most natural thing to do can seem the most insane.
The thought of the possibility that I'll start using money again has made me feel quite tense and apprehensive over the last week or two - in years gone by the thought of having no cash had that same effect - and contemplating tax forms, getting a bank account, statements, paying bills and all the rest is enough to drive me to drink - a couple of Brazilian and German guys who I done some filming for last week brought me a bottle of cachasa, a beautiful rum from the producer's home country, and it is looking very appealing at the moment. I've had a taste of getting away from all the bureaucracy, illusion and bullshit (for want of a better word) of modern life and it has been incredibly liberating, though it does come with its own challenges.
So you may be asking the following question - why am I even considering this given the extent to which I don't want to? This is where it gets a bit complicated. Last week I just agreed on a publisher for my book on my year without money - the working title is "The Moneyless Man: A Year of Freeconomic Living". This was a terribly difficult decision to make in itself, without having to consider all this other stuff. Three publishers offered to buy it. Two of them, Green Books and Permanent Publications, are the market leaders in the green market; the former publishes books such as 'The Transition Handbook' by Rob Hopkins and Satish Kumar's stuff, the latter looking after people such as Ben Law and Patrick Whitefield and titles include the fantastic 'Earth Care Manual', which I would strongly recommend for all UK readers. The third is a bigger, more mainstream publisher called Oneworld, who focus totally on books around the big issues, ethics and thought provoking philosophy - Bill McKibben's fantastic book 'Deep Economy' being one of their lead titles, along with stuff such as a fascinating book written by the family of Osama Bin Laden. A fantastic choice to have but a complex one also.
So I had to choose - to go with either of two smaller but very very very ethical publishers (something I rant about on a regular basis), both of whom I would love to work with, especially Tim and Maddy at Permanent. Lovely people. Or to go with the bigger (but still very ethical) guys who have promised to make the book one of their lead titles in 2010 and get it out to the masses.
So what did I do? I slightly went against my own principles and went with the bigger guys; having said that, I did honour other aspects of my beliefs in doing so. Life, I find, is never black and white. Which was an unbelievably tough decision I can tell you, as there were so many factors to consider. The main factor, for me, was that Oneworld have a whole team of top people who can get the book out to the world and have the ability to do so. One of my fears was that the book would just reach what people in the environmental movement call 'the converted'. With the two other publishers, I was slightly concerned that may happen, though I could also be very wrong on that. All our decisions, at the end of the day, are our best guess. But I want people from all sections of our diverse society to have access to it and take something useful from it, and that is what swayed it for me in the end. Oneworld's aim is to "make cutting-edge ideas accessible to a broad audience", which is my aim also.
When someone wants to publish your book they often offer both you and your agent quite a lot of money for the rights. This is where we come to the trigger of my current dilemma. I don't know what to do to be completely honest. My options are the following:
1. Let the publisher keep all the money - my agent would probably not be too happy!
2. Let my agent keep all the proceeds - my agent would probably be very happy!
3. Give all the proceeds that are due to me to a project I would love to support.
4. Set up a fund and use the money to help buy a piece of land to set up the first REAL Freeconomy Community - a community of people that live without money, where any member of this online community can come and stay and experience moneyless living, get involved in daily life and take away ideas. It will be a community where food, friendship, fun, music, education, dance, art, skillsharing, experience, foraging, scavenging is at the core. I will not go on about this any more as it is the subject of next weeks blog; needless to say, if you are interested, email me!
The first two would be reasonably good statements to make but not very effective in real terms. My heart says YES with the third, as it agrees with everything I believe in. However, my head, and a part of heart, goes with the fourth - it says write the book as well as you can, give it every ounce of your soul, get it out to as many people as possible and use the money to liberate a piece of land from this money-driven world of private property, and put it back into collective stewardship, where we can put our ideals into practice on an everymoment basis.
Writing the book is not up for debate by the way - I'd write it for free regardless, as it is my passion and an absolute privilege to be able to express your beliefs to the world. I just don't know what to do with the proceeds the author would usually get.
If I accept the money, I am back in the money world if even only to the most minimum of levels, as I'll have to declare as self-employed I guess. Giving money to a government involved in war in the middle east would be a whole new source of inner tension into the bargain.
If I don't accept the money, then I am opening myself up to the world to provide the piece of land we will need to make the long-term vision for this community happen.
The latter is what my heart wants to do. But then my head steps in and say "Do you really think someone will just donate a load of acres of land to the real-life Freeconomy project, a piece of arable soil that has some woods and a river?" The old businessman in me has got my new trusting, adventurous self pinned to the ground and is beating six shades of crap out of him. What chance does the heart stand when up against the head! She is the complete underdog against He. But I always want the underdog to win. I just worry that my heart may be in fantasy land and that it could make what is normally a really difficult job - finding and attaining the perfect piece of land - difficult or impossible without money in the money driven world I find myself in.
Is there another way I am not aware of? Of course no matter what I choose I will only use money for the absolute minimum, which for me would be land.
I am completely perplexed by all of this to be honest, and after weeks of thinking about it I feel no closer to the answer. I need your help - what should I do? Trust that the perfect piece of land will come along at the right moment, or go back into money world with a view to getting out of it as quickly as possible? But this time on a permanent basis, instead of just a year. As always, it comes down to land.
No matter what happens, I won't be accepting the money for myself - I will be setting up a fund to ironically buy a piece of land out of the world of money and private property. What would you do with the proceeds that will inevitably be available to me - option 1, 2, 3 or 4? And why? I'd really value your advice on this one, especially as the community I am proposing to set up will be a place where any of you will be welcome to come and experience, and you will even have the chance to be part of the core team that lays both it's physical and philosophical foundations.
And also let me know about your thoughts on the setting up of a real life freeconomy community, and whether or not you are interested.
THE FREECONOMY BLOG is written by Mark Boyle, founder of The Freeconomy Community. Mark is currently living without money for a year.
Comment on this Post:
Bree comments ...
i would put the money into a fund for land...if that is your dream you should take action about it. if people donate land as well then the bigger the community! if you think its very important that the community is founded on donated money then give your money to the publisher - if you like what they do then they can do more good things with that money...
Richard comments ...
You've already answered your own question. Do 4 and you can realise the goal you write of at the start of your post. Good luck!
Dele comments ...
I think you should take the money and buy a piece of land where you can explore living according to your values.
John comments ...
There is a way to avoid "Giving money to a government involved in war in the middle east". Set up a charity and dnoate the copyright in your book to the charity. The charity will receive royalities tax free. The charity can then buy the land in its name.
Neelierue comments ...
I vote for option 4 without a doubt.!
You would be creating the causes for exactly the kind of world you want for others. Until people can experience really what it is that you're trying to accomplish, first hand, then your concept remains a concept only for the few to know. Create the world and invite people to experience it for themselves.
claus comments ...
Option 3 and 4 seem pretty identical to me, the only difference being if you'll let the money contaminate you personally. What I would consider doing, being in your shoes, would be this: Proceeds from writing are traditionally not known to be large, so if that would be the reason for allowing yourself to be contaminated by "the dark force" it would be a bad choice in terms of trade-off. Also, there's the whole issue of feeling good: Obviously you get by fine without money. Enjoy it, even. And it doesn't harm anyone else. So, "if it ain't broken, why fix it?"
That leaves really just one option, seeing as you're going to write that ook anyway; and it will get published, and proceeds will arise somehow... Which is: Create a legal entity, a foundation of some sort to pursue the kind of goals you find important. "Option 4" is clearly one of these goals, but I think that others may actually exist.
I choose the words "legal entity" deliberately and carefully. You will want that entity to be the receiver of all of your income. Everything, so that you are not contaminated yourself. And you will want that entity to make al decisions and administration of those funds, including paying the taxes to whatever country that entity is established in.
Also, you will want somebody to manage that entity for you. If you manage it yourself single-handedly you will be very close to actually having money. So, you should stick to making a set of rules for the entity ("foundation"), donating any and all proceeds from your future proceed-generating activities, and let someody else manage all the money business, in strict accordance to the rules and terms you specify.
A legal entity like that, a foundation, is quite commonplace and a lawyer would be able to set it up for you in no time, even in another country that is not waging war in the Middle East.
Legally you would still be moneyless, as all the proceeds from the book and whatnot would go to the foundation, not you. And you would carefully craft a set of regulations for the foundation, making sure that the money would be spent, and be spent on the items you specify only.
I send my best wishes that you automagically will meet a person with sufficient business and/or legal insight in the near future.
Thak you for writing. And being.
comments ...
I think John's entry is the one and echoes my thoughts so:
"There is a way to avoid "Giving money to a government involved in war in the middle east". Set up a charity and dnoate the copyright in your book to the charity. The charity will receive royalities tax free. The charity can then buy the land in its name."
cabbageman comments ...
Don't, don't don't do it... you already know the answer to your question. It's in between every line you've written.
Instruct the publisher to give all the money to a good cause. Only pay the agent what he/she is legally owed.
Then use the same philosophy/principles you use to find food to set up the community. You have a good chance of succeeding on the back of all the publicity from the book. Hey you might not get offered the 'perfect place, next to a perfect river' etc., but get real. That place didn't exist 2,000 years ago because someone else was already there. And if were not they would have found it pretty quick after you had set up home and stolen it.
Step out of your 12 month experiment into the brave 'new world' you advocate and give it a shot, for real.
Like several thousand others, I'll support you all I can. By the way, I'm skint too.
Good luck and thank you.
cabbageman
pete. comments ...
Hi Mark, All i can think of is expand on your book success. Exploit it for all its worth and then you will be in a position to get the ear of the hierarchy.
Nobody listens to anyone on the bottom rung of society.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Matthew Tuite(birmingham UK) comments ...
mark, you are a GOD of a man! Thankyou reading your story filled me with joy! Myself , my girlfriend and a few friends have been pondering about this for a while! We want out of todays sick society and start up without the need for money! So I'd like to say right now I'm in with you pal! My g/f has some inheritance and myself and my friends make money from playing music, we could help fund your cause aswell wherever we can! This has to happen so please choose option 4 and let us come along with you! much Love
Matthew Tuite
sally comments ...
choose the fourth. the experiment needs to be done. and if you make a lot of money for the book then split it between 3 and 4. you probably will be able to do both then and help another organization
along. some great ideas about land donation below...if you can't live there at least contribute land...
i found your story inspiring...
thanks
sally
amy comments ...
4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 - fund for a communal patch of land - this seems like the most permaculture use of the £. If you don't take the money at all, it would be a bit like making some useful compost but giving it to someone else - not an inherently bad plan but certainly an open energy cycle. So i would say, close the energy cycle, put back into the land what you've got out of it. In my head the energy travels from the earth, to you, to the rest of us (via the book), we give it back to us in the form of money, you can put in back into the land from where it came. Also it'd be a good way to 'clean' the money. It may come from bad places but you have the power to harness it for good. Okay, all of the above many well be a bit idealistic and simplistic but you have a really wonderful opportunity here, please please don't give away your beautiful (and potentially nutritious) compost!
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ Bree, Richard, Dele, John, Neelierue, claus, cabbageman, pete, sally - thank you so much for your thoughts, it has really helped me. I really appreciate your time to read it and advice. @ Amy - I love your reference to the best permaculture use of it. I'm beginning to agree! @ Matthew Tuite - thank you for inspiring comment, great to hear you want to do this too! Please get in contact or leave your email address, would be good to have a chat about this, I am looking for people to start this up with and you guys sound great.
ERIC FROM IRELAND comments ...
SIMPLE WRIGHT YOUR BOOK AND TRADE IT FOR SOME LAND IN THAT WAY WE ALL GET TO READ IT YOU GET YOUR LAND SHOW THE WORLD HOW?AND WAT? HAS BEEN FORGOTTIN FOR A LONG LONG LONG TIME.... STAY SAFE LIVE FREE
Remi comments ...
It is the first time I read your blog but think the answer probably lies somewhere outside the box you put yourself in. The first three options are out of the question given that you cannot ignore that your work will create money. If you're making someone else money, you're still making money. Option 5 would be to burn it, although it is hard to do, thinking of the good that the money could do. With a background in economics you could easily earn a lot of money and give it all away, but that is not what you are trying to achieve.
One solution would be to barter with the publisher. You write the book, they provide you with the land that you seek. Although this would still result in the land owner making money. So, seek a land owner that has a book he/she wants published and that would be willing to exchange land for the book getting published, get your publisher to publish the land owner's book and get the land in return.
Andrew Hammond comments ...
Communities do need figures with leadership qualities and I think sacrifice is often necessary for those who are the first to do something. They need to break through the initial wall and make a big enough gap to allow others to follow through. Not everyone can make the initial crack in the wall mainly because something hard to achieve is required to do it.
Given how ingrained money is in how we live, I think there will need to be an initial flirt with that system in order to get what you want e.g the land. Anyone who thinks something can be achieved by hoping for land to appear out of nowhere is living in an unrealistic fantasy. If you cannot get the land you need you will always remain on the fringe of the money system, never being quite self-sustaining. The important point is to not indulge too far in the money sytem and to always have the intention to break from it as soon as possible.
I would support .4. Use your book to spread your beliefs as far as you can, the hope is the book can have a positive impact on society at large. Use the proceeds to buy the land you require thus allowing you to disconnect from money permanently.
I would be very interested to be a part of this.
Mitch Trachtenberg comments ...
Thanks for your inspiration.
How's about this:
(1) write down the names of a group of people that you admire and trust;
(2) remove from the list any names of persons that are in professions you find a matter of concern;
(3) ask them to establish a foundation to purchase the land;
(4) donate all proceeds from the book to the foundation
I'm trying to propose something that seems most in keeping with your aims, but I also think it would make more sense for you to keep some degree of control... but then I'm not the one who had the wisdom to write "independence is really interdependence."
Good luck and best wishes.
James O'Keefe comments ...
#4. The world needs more working examples of alternatives to the world of work, money & consumption.
Matthew Bennett comments ...
Have you ever read http://www.rewild.info ?
There appears to me a large community thinking similarly to you, both within the empire and in the colonies. As a result, I'd suggest that #3 may work out the best to keep you sane and spiritually secure.
Raised as a Christian, though now more Animist than anything else, I can say that Jesus professed many similar ideals to you. A current theologian, Ched Myers, encourages a reading of the Bible in which Jesus appears as the first Rewilder within a conquered and assimilated, once-indigenous Jewish peoples. To a degree, we civilized peoples all share the Jewish part of the story, for at one time, each of our indigenous tribal ancestors' villages were raped & pillaged & destroyed by the forebears of the current dominating culture. Anywho, the aim of freeconomics seems very similar to part of Ched Myers work, which shares similar teachings through the lens of the Bible. He has a website called http://www.sabbatheconomics.org
Cheers,
'Matt
Dorathy comments ...
I take it you are in contact with Freegans?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism
Some have lived years without money and may know of those willing to donate land etc.
digger comments ...
http://www.archive.org/bookserver
Give your book away free to download on the Web--that way the most people possible will get to read it.
As for your community, I'm with Cabbageman: to achieve it, you have to stick to the practice of your ideals. If you have to use money/profits to found your community, then you've already admitted to it's impracticality; you've conceded that doing without money lacks real robustness and viability.
Have you watched Ken Loach's films about the Irish and Spanish civil wars? Both of them brought up the conflict between the practical men, who saw that the only way to win was to put off the revolution until it was won because the only way to win was by using the instruments/practices of the owners/rulers against the owners/rulers, and the other practical men, who were determined that the revolution could only be lost if it was compromised by using the instruments/practices of the owners/rulers because their use must be against revolution.
To me the other practical men are right. Build your community without money--and write another book about that--and give it away, too!
David comments ...
Go with option 4: going with this option you are converting your energy into something positive by liberating a plot of land that can be used for the type of thing you have been doing in the last year; plus you are not actually getting the money in your pocket per se. In doing this you are choosing option 3 also, something you feel passionate enough about and it is you vision. Much like you have been reusing and recycling materials for your use, you are recycling and reusing the money for more useful and longer lasting purposes. Hope this makes sense.
S Hallow comments ...
Bah! You've done your time - take the money and run, mate. A couple of nights at a nice hotel (think hot baths), a few good dinners in a nice restaurant, a spot of clothes shopping to update the wardrobe, followed by a nice, long holiday somewhere in the tropics. Lovelyjubbly!
Pat comments ...
Just remember, if you get the land you'll have to pay property tax on it every year, which will be a repeating burden on you. If you're willing to accept money for that purpose then go for it. Otherwise I'd lean more with the third option.
grrrl comments ...
$5 says that you have an inheritance of some kind waiting for you in a decade or less.
Maureen comments ...
Mark, you should buy aout there who is willing to donate a piece of land piece of land to start making your dream happen. In this way, others will feel moved to help you, support you and join you. It has to start somewhere, and unless there is some very rich freeconomist (an oxymoron surely?) who is willing to donate the land, then it could be a very long time before your dream starts to take off. Also, now that you have proved that you can do it for 12 months, what would be the point of going back to how you were? Wouldn't that render the past 12 months a waste of time? I am so envious of you - I am well and truly trapped in 'the world' but not yet brave enough to make my escape, but reading about how far you have come on your journey is truly inspiring. I know there are many people following you on your journey and willing you on your way. So go for it, use the money one last time and make it work for you, and for others. xx
Ben comments ...
I like option 3 or 4 - I say either use it to buy the land to start the community or give it to a worthy organization in need. One thing to consider is that even if you give away the money and wait for the land to be donated, somewhere behind that land donation would be money - even if it's a gift, at some point it was likely purchased and therefore is tied to money. Someone's money somewhere would be enabling them to donate the land. Because of this inescapable reality and because "earning" the land for the community would likely enable you to obtain the most appropriate piece of land for your purposes, I would say it is forgivable and probably even preferable to use the money from the book to purchase land which you then essentially give away to a greater purpose, thereby removing it from the world of private land ownership, as you mentioned.
Amanda comments ...
Richard said it well, it does sound like you've made your decision already!
I'm all for a Freeconomy community. I'd be there in a heartbeat.
Mitja K. comments ...
Why do you narrow your vison down to the idea, that owing a piece of land is the premise to manifesting your vision of your REAL Freeconomy Community? The notion that first this and this must happend in order for the next to manifest itself in your realm seems "poor". Have faith that you allready started a vibrational idea that will resonance with people out there -of whom you you will have (allready have) interdepence outcome with. In form of a perfect piece of land, in form of perfect networking so in good time and order that issue will resolve it self.
I say: do what you need to do, write the book, wait what to do with that outcome untill you FEEL what is needed in due time. People might connect to you in ways you never imagined.
To have acces and make use of the soil and its acres might not be, that it requires a cost in the shape of money!!!
isn't that the core of you vision. to optain it without money but invest from what allready IS. You allready proven you started you present change in life with something that allready was in you "possesion" your camper where you live, that was your initial "investment" or stepping stone to live out your dream. Have faith that your writing in publishing will be that steppingstone.
Was it in Ghandis film that the aboriginal commented that he did not understand how a piece of paper could make someone the owner of the land. Try to think outside the western box, if you can. I understand you dilemma, but maybe someone else will solve it with other options than you perhaps limited number of visions of how to begin living that Freeeconomy land. Live it! and if it resonate with people enough to grow a need for more space than just you, then they will come effortfly on your path. That is my notion. Thanks for reading you first and only blog entry :-) Hope I helped in any way... Maybe read Conversations with God triology in how to create and descover the highest vision of whom you want to be. With Love, Mitja K.
Lilinne comments ...
I'm just discovering your adventure, and I resonate deeply with what you're doing. I grew up with quite environmentally/social justice minded parents, and once I got out of school I lived more or less without money for years. No regular income, but donations and some cash in hand for bike repairs etc.
I only had my backpack and moved around almost all the time, which became very tiring after a while, quite different from what you're doing. I used to wwoof (volunteer on organic farms), doing some instructive/inspiring streetperformance when in cities, and of course foraging and dumpster diving etc. sharing the result around... I had my tent, kitchenware, basic books, toys, clothes on my back, hitchiked around for a while, then had a bike...
Anyhow, after about 6 years I started to feel really tired and wanting to settle, and I guess the so called biological clock had ticked on to "nesting"... so worked for a while in some organic stores, and ran into the love of my life. Now, well, we stand with our ideals and the exact same baseline as you in the critic of today's system – but with a wish for children. That changes the situation quite profoundly! Keep it in mind when you do your choice – even if you wouldn't ever dream of having kids (I didn't until I met my love) it can suddenly happen, and it is good to have created a future that is not only virtuous and just and in harmony with the other living creatures, but also allows for a family.
And I agree the most with views expressed by Pat, David, and Amy: reinvesting in what you believe in, through a form that avoids giving to the state and that spreads the power over the assets among several likeminded people.
I'll follow your blog from now on. Wishing you all the best!
Live – Love – Learn
L - 28yrs female human being
Mitja K. comments ...
Could your publisher come up with ideas how they can assist you in a exchange of manuscript for access to a piece of land. Maybe without being the owner of it? Make them work a bit for the idea that you would rather be paid otherwise than in cool cash. Just a flimpsy idea.
Catherine O'Regan comments ...
I understand your dilemma. Four seems like the most reasonable option out of all, however I get the impression that you feel you might be letting yourself and ideals down. I'm a firm believer in following your heart, and the rest will take care of itself. So here is a suggestion. Of course it is risky, but it might make you more comfortable with the whole thing.
First, donate the proceeds to a worthwhile cause after your own heart.
Secondly, add a postscript to the book where you explain everything you've expressed in this blog and that you decided to donate the proceeds to such and such an organisation, but finish by saying that the dream of having a piece of land still is very much alive, and put it to anyone that has been inspired to donate themselves to a fund to make this happen.
What goes around comes around. Give and you shall receive. You might be pleasantly surprised!
caoregan@tcd.ie
Flo comments ...
4 seems like the most reliable plan. Waiting for land may never come and by purchasing land you have a sooner start at your community instead of waiting for donators.
steve comments ...
Go with option 4. Nothing in this world is black and white. Even though paying for land with money is using the system you stand against, that doesn't make it wrong. You are using this corrupt system against itself to support your cause. You aren't benefiting capitalist society by buying your dream land. You are fighting against it because you will have the chance to offer so many more people a chance to experience what you have gone through the past year. In the end, you will be taking more people away from the disillusionment of the money-centered world than you could ever imagine doing with some possibly shitty piece of property someone didn't want and donated for the farm. You shouldn't feel bad about using money in this limited circumstance because you aren't breaking any of the core principles you believe in. You aren't doing anything with the money that doesn't directly support your cause.
Dr. Drift comments ...
I am impressed by your piece in the Guardian today and your most recent blog. To be more sustainable I think you should take the money from your book, combined with future contributions, and buy a big piece of land in a place where land is cheap and your ownership could be expanded, and that will not be badly impacted by global warming. This would not be in the UK, except perhaps as a demonstration project. I have always been extremely skeptical about the theoretical basis of mainstream economics, and do not own anything substantial (such as a house or car) perhaps because I have spent my life advancing knowledge in ecology and evolution.
Andy comments ...
I'm no lawyer, but putting the money into some sort of Trust to buy the land would free you from the responsibility of ownership, so whether it succeeded as you dream, or on a different route, and you chose to move to another project, it would not tie you down.
I also like the idea of freeing the knowledge by giving the book away online.
Slawluv comments ...
Four sounds like it's where your heart really is and with an end result that has immense possibilities. Have you thought about finding the piece of land that you want and having the publishers buy it and then donate it to you in lieu of payment? Minus what is due your agent, of course.
Carlos Quevedo comments ...
Choose option 4, and set up a charity to get tax free royalties to aid in buying the land. I just stumbled upon this page 10 minutes ago and you have already become one of my heroes. If , when I finish my schooling, you have chosen option 4 and are still pursuing it, I will gladly help you in anyway I can. Untill then, I will do what I can still. I believe in you and recognize the light that you have within you already, for I am now just realizing it within myself. You are a beautiful human being Mark, and to see someone with your ideals actually turn them into a reality is itself a beautiful thing. Do what you must brother, you know we all love you....
Ryan Chapin comments ...
For change to truly be affected, it must be done so through the context of the existing paradigm. Use the money to buy the land.
Dean comments ...
I liked John's suggestion of setting up a charity and buying the land through that channel, i'm sure a little research on your part can make that a viable solution.
Ultimately I don't see a conflict of your morals by using the money to buy land. That money will be used to greatly benefit a lot of people and hoping for someone to donate you land is incredibly idealistic and right now you need to be pragmatic.
This is not a perfect world, so one last (and brief) 'foray' into the fiscal realm for the greater good is certainly justifiable.
Also, Good Luck!
Josh comments ...
Publish a PDF version of your book online, take donations and/or sell the "whole" book for a nominal fee.
Ben Johnson comments ...
Give the money to your agent, with the express purpose to buy the land you are looking for. Pay him extra for the work, make sure the documents are written up so the land belongs to the freeconomy. This way you get your land, ensure it is secure, and get some other money orientated fool to do the dirty work for you.
Caroline comments ...
A reality without money has been a dream of mine since I grasped the concept of cash. As passionate of a penny saver as I am, I love the freedom of surviving in an environment in which money has no value much more than any growth in my bank account.
Therefore, I would pick option 4. And then I would (after I graduate college with a degree only useful if your idea of success is beyond the boundaries of a salary) come to this lovely community and write, grow food, exist, etc. and always always learn.
Toby comments ...
What you seem to be missing is that the way you are living is a privilege only someone living in the exploitative and ultra rich west can have. You get the crumbs that fall off the plates of the rich westerners you are surrounded with (especially by eating waste left over by others). Try to do what you are doing in somewhere normal: like the ultra poor 80 per cent of the world. Your experiment is still valid of course and super interesting, not denying that. But try telling 85 per cent of Indians they are wasting food! I can assure you they eat every scrap of the rhoti and dhal (if they are lucky) and smear of chutney they can afford on their rhotis.
Anna comments ...
Tough dilemma! II'd probably go with using the money to set up a community, to give the project as much chance of success as possible. I think it's a really compelling idea, and while it might be some years before I had the gumption to come and join it, I certainly wouldn't rule it out! Good luck!
Taralou comments ...
Option 4 for sure. Buy the land for the community & then go back to how you were living. You don't have to worry or wait for anyone else to do anything for you, & whilst in theory it makes you a hypocrite, life just isn't that straightforward. If you are going to be generating some form of money from the booksales at least have some control over how to spend & remember you could be converting someone like me who is a total capitalist. If you are worried that the lure of the cash will be too great, get a friend that you can trust implicitly to deal with it all. Just a thought really. For me, this is a no brainer, nothing else is even viable.
Antony comments ...
Take the money, buy the land, set up a fund to support issues that speak to you, and any other money use to get your views and ideas mainstream
Lyssa M comments ...
I know this must be really weighing on you... but I have to say option 4... Remember when you first started your year? Yes there were some really good people that helped you out with the Caravan and the land but there were certain things you needed to buy like the solar panels and what not... so I think it's the same in this big project... I think best to sell the book and use that money build the foundations of what can be generations of Freeconomy. And I like John's (it was john wasn't it?) post about setting up a charity to avoid the money going to the government.. I totally understand your feelings about that... it really gets hubby to see his wage slip with x amount going to fund wars! And yes I'd be totally interested... not sure how to persuade hubby tho... not sure that's a battle I can win, lol. oh... and with the community we need to think of family as well as just adults... you'd need to think schools!! and shoes... school and shoes are THE most expensive things ever!!
guriben comments ...
Mark, I really think you should read (and consider) this article... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/aug/18/free-ebooks-cory-doctorow ...he's a bit of a hero of mine!
wageslave comments ...
Well I for one am impressed by your boldness.... living like you have is frankly one of the most heroic things any modern person can do not to mention bloody difficult.
If you can buy the space and security for you and others to continue and create a sustainable relationship with the land as a consequence of your boldness why wouldn't you?
If you want to reduce societies dependence on money there need to be alternative economies and comunities scattered across the world...
If you give the money to an existing project that dream of communal cash free living may never survive.
Ultimately it might never become mainstream but the dream needs it's pioneers.
maddy comments ...
Why not get the publishers to print the book and give it out for free? After all, the catch is that we the reader will need money to buy the book. Or have two versions: a free one and a more detailed paid for one. (or is that too complicated.) I think the dream (4) is a valuable one to follow but the reality is that not everyone has land to donate and even if they do, it could be inadequate to do anything with it. So it could be an empty gesture. Your book is a process, a journey, and you want take others along with you ie. through a shared experience but also in the reality of setting up a community experience without money. I like the idea of a legal entity handling any proceeds you make. Good luck!
Jerome comments ...
The solution is obvious: tell your agent to get stuffed, keep all the money and use it to setup a company that imports plastic goods made in Vietnamese sweatshops. Rub hands. Say 'Muahaha'. Rinse. Repeat.
I jest, of course. Option 4 all the way. Best of luck.
MsBurb comments ...
Hey Mark,
I'm viewing you in a light I DOUBT you would ever come to pass!
Without the $$$ and, of course, the murder, you are attempting, 40 years later, what Charles Manson (HEY, DON"T STOP READING JUST 'CAUSE I SAID THE CM WORDS!!!) wanted to do up at Barker Ranch in California.
He, of course, did not have your education, and because of it, when the pressure was on, he had no intellect to fall back on as a survival skill, and decided, of his own accord, to revert to his ex-con ways, instead of seeking help, following, and a social statement void of crime and murder.
I, Mark, am a free-lance feature writer for TLB2 "2nd Official Tate-LaBianca Murders Blog" (http://2ndofficialtate-labiancamurdersblog.blogspot.com/ ), and come from a cop's background, so Law & Order is how I view society.
I am NOT glorifying The Family nor condoning their actions in ANY way. I'm just analyzing the good and the bad and trying to make sense where no sense has ever been seen.
If Charlie were able to turn back the clock, he would be by your side 100%. What you are attempting to do is what he so wanted to do.
Now, of course, the capitalist, right-wing money makers of the US will poo-poo your "communist" slant to your view of society, but it IS the very existence of a pure democracy which should welcome all forms of speech, thought and actions - how to live and let live - so by your avante-garde ways, you are in fact celebrating democracy at its finest!
Charlie had no support, no resources and a basic 7th grade education with a wholly institutionalized form of existence, spending 17 years, 1/2 of his life in some form of prison before he was 34!
But he was an astute man, Mark, and he knew that his dream WAS doable, and may be the answer to many people who feel that the money-driven society was enslaving them to their deaths.
I KNOW you'll think I'm a kook and a Charlie lover - but I am neither.
I just could so easily see the success you have already achieved doing what you have done, that Charlie had so much wanted to do himself, all those forty years ago.
You and your group, OBVIOUSLY choosing No4, in a charitable vein, would in actuality, possibly heal some of the wounds felt by us who so feared this kind of movement after the human destruction Charlie wrought.
You can talk the torch carried by others before you and add more fuel to the flame and with your resources achieve what others less fortunate than yourself, were never able to do.
There is alway good in everything which houses bad, and I think its fitting really, that the year you chose to adopt Charlie's dream was the year forty years ago he chose to relinquish his for evil.
I, and so many of the silent few, congratulate you on your already momentous achievement and, as we sit from out money-driven easy chairs, quietly attempt to bolster you with our best wishes and prayers!
Cordially, and with great admiration,
MsBurb
High Chief Mucky Muck of
Burb's Buck & Buntline Inn (B3) http://burbsbuckandbuntlineinn.blogspot.com/
2nd Official Tate-LaBianca Murders Blog (TLB2) http://2ndofficialtate-labiancamurdersblog.blogspot.com/
cabbageman comments ...
Everything in life is a gamble. Option 4 generates a small amount of guaranteed cash, but never enough to give you what you really need in the long term - A) an overwhelming belief in yourself B) the goodwill of others, C) and luck. The latter - or the perception of it - is of course the most important. But no matter how you dress up your option 4 (trust etc.), ABC will never be fully explored or realised because the cash has already guaranteed a fast track springboard to what you have already suggested might be stage 1 of your plan.
No one will deny you will need great courage to follow Catherine O'Regan's comments and many who genuinely want you to succeed will brand you a little crazy. But if you are prepared to accept the highs along with the inevitable terrible lows, Catherine’s advice will reap far greater rewards than option 4 in the longer term.
Don’t just believe it. Know it.
andy comments ...
Buy the land!!! You have already seen the 'other side' embrace it totally and just be! If nothing else do it for all us other mugs who are caught in the trap of consumerism and global slavery. If only I could persuade the wife to give up her creature comforts I would be with you in body. For now I support you heart and soul! Lucky B@*%ard!
Matt comments ...
Great to read your blog. It recindles in me ethics I lived by many years ago and long since put aside for a mainstream life. There maybe time for me again thanks to people like you.
A possible option could be to offer to 'swap' your fruits of wirting with your editor for a nice suitable plot of land? I mean, you own your caravan don't you ? You own your clothes and your cooker? why not own the land you live on ? not by purchase but by barter ?
Good luck with your life, I'd love to bring my family to come and visit and contribute at some point.
Regards,
Matt
Kate comments ...
It seems to me that, unquestionably your heart and soul lie in no. 4 - the way you describe it, it sings off the page! so then the question is whether you take the money from the publisher to buy some land or trust the land will be donated, and have the publisher give the money owed to you to a project of your choosing. I don't know the answer but i do think that trusting that what we truly need will be provided is an integral part of the way of living that you have chosen - that all that 'common sense' that kicks in is part of the conditioning about the way things have to be that you have rejected. so maybe trusting it will be donated is more in line with your philosophy and will give the whole venture more resonance and integrity...
Antonia comments ...
4!! definitely! and I'd love to come and visit you guys sometime :-) I understand your dilemma though and I think it would indeed be possible that somebody donates a piece of land. Go with Johns option and see what comes along on the road of your adventure? Keep up the great work! thank you for doing what you do, I am sure it will inspire many people, as it already did me just after reading your article i itch to get out of the office and set up a compost toilet and grow my veggies again... keep us posted! cheers
hugh comments ...
I admire your moneyless year, and the option to buy land seems a good and logical follow-up. .... but money is not the only moral peril you will encounter... Ownership, and the temptation to Control something which you, only you, sweated for ... how to deal with your potential lead role in the decision making of the community that will share the land. Community dynamics .... wooeee!
Kate Dixon comments ...
Dear Mark,
I 'Stumbled' across you this morning and went on to read parts of your blog. Interesting dilemma and congratulations - secular or otherwise getting a publisher to offer more than a lick down on a SAE is phenomenal. For what it's worth I think there has to be a demarcation between living honestly and congruently and returning to the Middle Ages. Evolution cannot, and should not go backwards – it is against the laws of nature. What is also important to remember is that to have an environmental rapport, there must be the capacity to live receptively and acceptingly and this is holistic and should include elements that can ultimate benefit the greater good. Being a congruent human being, isn’t just about being terribly uncomfortable, cold and wet (although most people imagine living without money would be little else) it is about accepting that whilst you may reject the way the world works, the world will carry on working that way. If we stopped everything negative now, it would still be too late. This is part of the natural order of our cosmos. Of course, as a massive and rapacious species we have done extraordinary damage to our own habitat but realistically, even if every person does their bit from this moment, we cannot turn around the fact that it is probably too late for man. We are just too big, too greedy, too vicicious and too self important to avoid our ultimate extinction. However, in the interim, to make a better life, I am very much of the opinion that to completely reject everything is naive and entails loads of energy being used up just reinventing the wheel.
A remarkable insight, with no durable way of life cannot be translated. Man’s devolution has happened because to evolve healthily requires the ability to adapt with the environment, not attempt to make the environment adapt. I would counsel that you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. You have a long way to go and there are certain givens. As an individual you can maybe get away with bartering your skills for land to live by, but as a society – you will be rejected, misunderstood and feared. Your average tax paying ‘straight up’ citizen will just see a bunch of Unwashed who threaten his peace of mind because they reject the principles by which he lives. It’s understandable that he will try and annihilate you – it is what humans do with things they are frightened of. The money you earn from your book could enable you to lay down protection for you and those who join you. Land. Even then you will be servants to certain societal demands and there may well be many moments you can barter or convince or scavenge for what you need, but there will be certainly moments when you cannot. Why shoot yourself in the foot by rejecting payment for something that has grown out of your philosophy when that could actually be the perfect way to fund your growth.
You are defined by what you deny yourself but you live in a world, whether you like it not, that defines itself by what it charges. Think of it another way, if a species exterminates that on which it most depends, it condemns itself to extinction. To a point, everything has to adapt, to fit into the greater picture, even you.
I confess to not knowing much of your background. From what I read, you were giving up money ‘for a year’. Of course, you can survive. Is that all you desire from this, To prove a point? So long as somebody else has done the paying, you will find the things you need for free. But if you want to move it forward then to a point, you have to play the game. It’s there and the greatest risk is that you cripple any chance of success by not using some of what is lying around on offer (which is, from what I understand, the essence of your way of life). Make the most of it, be proud of yourself – if you leave behind words then you have done something extraordinary because your voice will survive you. If you abdicate from that responsibility of who gets the money owed to you, allowing a load of faceless administrators to waste and squander your donation then you are have really learnt nothing and ironically are supporting exactly the same system as you are rejecting.
Money is not evil, it is what man does with it and how it rules his life that creates the pervasive sickness that infects and destroys us. So long as you know this then it returns to its proper place – an exchange, and if in that exchange you can facilitate growth and advancement, then you will be using it wisely. Throwing it away when it is being offered in fair exchange is short sighted and to be honest, a bit daft, don’t you think? Living without money is an experiment. Living in the now, at one with your world, respectful of every element and rejecting societies mantra of what is needed for happiness, is a whole New Order. A philosophy that cannot bend is dogma. Haven’t the world’s religions given us enough of that and indeed, shown us graphically how destructive the inability to bend?
John Forde comments ...
Hey Mark,
I would go with none of the above (have you signed?). I would publish online and let it go viral and stay as a one man self-sustained show => no moral comprimise.
If you do go down Option4, I think some form of currency will evolve in any community (one person living without representative money is doable but a stable interdependent community? - there was a reason why the Mesopotamians inscribed a few scratches in pieces of pressed clay to represent bags of flour etc.) I'm not saying a small moneyless community won't work but some fiat system will eventually evolve as the grouping becomes more complex. One solution would be to limit the size of the groups and so the resultant tribal communities will dependably coexist.
Thanks for starting something that a lot of people of our generation are starting to think about. But what I find is that we are so caught up and busy that we have no time to just stop........and think and wonder and ponder. It's like Tommy Tiernan's sketch....
'What do you do?' ...
'Nothing'.....
'WHAT, hahahah, what?... NOTHING????'
(Bertrand Russell's 'In praise of idleness' is also worth downloading....http://tinyurl.com/yfngmz5 )
Anyhow, good on you Mark for at least trying and being courageous and honest!
Lynn comments ...
Hi Mark,
Thank you for reminding me of my heart’s desire to live a simple, self-sustaining life...one I’ve held for over twenty years, but never attained. Why?
Well….I kept making decisions with my head, just as you are. I kept thinking long term and how I could envision making this happen. As it turns out I am not very good at this..lol. So I am in a life that often makes me sad and uncomfortable.
So, since you asked, my advice is to follow your heart as you said several times in your blog and give the money away. I know very well the feeling and thinking pattern you are going through. You think that fortune has brought you this opportunity…this money….and what is the right thing. Always the right thing is what speaks in your heart…not the head/small part of your heart…but the heart that tells you the truth...but makes no sense to your brain. Please..oh please take the brain out of things..chuckles…it is so often wrong it’s not funny.
I liked the idea of giving the book free to the web for all to read…this takes you out of the publishing process and monetary payment. Actually, I liked best the idea of burning the money…now that would be incredibly liberating and a true test of whether you can opt out of the money game. Money and the acquisition of things is a slippery slope….I think Saint Augustine wrote, “a life of total abstinence is easier than a life of perfect moderation”.
Building a community is enticing and many have gone there before with little success. Humans are imperfect and bring with them all the dark and light that makes us what we are…do you want to be a leader of a community because that is what the people will be looking for…and a natural state for a group.
You have been drawn to live this life…everything has been set up to bring you here…now you want to know what is the right thing. My humble opinion…based on your blog writing…..turn your back on the money….follow the quest you have started to its end…your heart will tell you when that is….when you feel calm in your decision is when you will know its right to change tracks.
You are combining old ways with new technology and modern economic principles…who knows where this will go…it is soooo very exciting…..but don’t fall back into a trap….i think you are being lured to come back to the fold….with a purchase of land and all that will go with it….I believe in dark and light forces….the dark works in our world…the light speaks to your heart.
I wish you all the best and I will continue to read with interest and excitement for your amazing journey.
Saliha comments ...
Hi Mark,
My first impression by reading you is... he is lucky he has the choice of deciding whether to have money or not.
I am naturally and deeply not interested by money (part of my education maybe), nevertheless I can't stop thinking about what I could do with some and how I could make things and/or mentality change.
I am still in such dilemma and it just makes me do nothing. I would advice to take the money and keep thinking the way you think...
Saliha
Tammy comments ...
Your funny...while I admire what it is your trying to achieve. You already lived your year WITH the things that MONEY could buy...ie...laptop, camper, solar panels. You didn't go out into the woods build a shed with your hands, anything like a tool would have been bought with money. You DID NOT live without money. Sorry, but you didn't. Again, you went into it with the things money did buy. So why the struggle now, with the things money can buy? Buy the land, and move to make a better place to be. But money will always be the beginning, like it was before your year. If not then don't buy the land, hope for a donation (money again somewhere) make your shed from the land with your own too hands (No tools, money made them) and live off the grid money less. You haven't done that one yet. What you have done is lived with less, lived with no MORE money for a year.
binnimanni comments ...
Don't buy land. land ownership is another wrong thing in this world as wrong as money. tThe first land owner took it with force and enslaved somebody else to toil on it. Slaves, bonded workers, sharecroppers, peasants, low waged workers, exploited illegal workers all come with land ownership. Then when big machinery come about the landowner give all is property to big company and the people is just evicted and thrown in to the cities without any skill to live with dignity. Right now some peasant, indigeneus people is being evicted, legally because they don't own it. I know very well because I'm one of these peasants. My family was evicted when the american governement approoved the Green Revolution just after the war and gave subsdies to land owner that enabled them to convert to the infamous monocultures we are used now.
Why don't join in the Via Campesina(indigeneous and peasant international organisation) whom are peacefully campaigning to free the land from private ownrship. I know it sound crazy, as crazy as living whithout money I suppose and when I'm loking for inspiration I'm looking to them, the bottom of the humanity seen by a class/caste sistem that are demanding to apply a simple right the right to access the land for growing your own food, the right to feed your family/community, the right to choose your way of life. So don't buy but join to make sure the UN ratify this right into the HuMAN RIGHT BILL.
Give the money to charity OR don't write the book altogether. I have known many people who lives without money, plus I believe that kind of over a billion people leaves without money wthout making such fuss about it. Many do it because they have access to some land, and are self sustainable by tradition until theyr land is nedded by palm oil cultivation, minerals and oar oil to make this computer I write now. And the people who leaves there? well some will discover, that although they have always lived there, they don't own the land. Land owenership is wrog wrong wrong. Don't ever by land.Campaign for the right of access to it.
Lorraine Flanagan comments ...
In a huge sense of irony you've actually earned the money by being moneyless - The 'revenue' generated from the book rights/sales - was made in essence without money - ie your 'living with out money' literally made the money grow on trees - these fruit of these trees are the paper they produce to host the words you have to give to the world. The money made - be it paper - is one way or another made from trees.
So: Choices:
4 - if thats what you really really want. but if your gut is 3, then 3 - could your project you have in mind benefit more people or the cause to which it was going.
Another way to look at it is - don't panic - it was your idea, you set your own targets and so forth, you have a free mind, and you may get blown away by a whole host of suggestions of people saying do this do that. Maybe just do nothing for a while and wait until the 'penny drops' and you'll know then what to do. Sometimes things just come at the right time. Make a decision in hast and repent at leisure they say.
Anyways that's my twopence worth - excuse all the cheesy puns! I've been broke for 3 1/2 years, and having no money in the money society sucks. It can bring freedom and can leave you a prisoner - with or without it - perhaps on both sides of the fence.
Kind regards, Lorraine Flanagan, Ireland (in teh middle bit! :) lorraineflanagan@eircom.net
Martin (B'ham) comments ...
Trade the publishing rights for land. Barter, in other words. Your publisher may be able to help with placing a valuation on the publishing contract.
nobody comments ...
Presumably this land won't just be for you. If you're thinking to establish a free, self-supporting community that uses the land sustainably, other people will be joining you sooner or later. Some of them will have savings they need to unload. If you have a charitable trust in place, it will give anyone with money who wishes to join the community a place to put it. And it will give the community the money to purchase more land as it grows.
Joselida comments ...
#4 definitely.
I totally understand your dilemma but you will be using the evil (money) to do good (providing knowledge) which in turn frees minds. Introducing and exposing people to freeconomic living has the potential to change the world.
I am totally 100% on the side of living a moneyless life however there are many obstacles put people's way to discourage those ideas. I think the biggest obstacle is fear but having a place to go and gain insight on how to actually go about leading a freeconomic life will alleviate some of those doubts and apprehension.
Go for it! I fully support your cause. Save me a spot in the REAL Freeconomy Community!
Tim Kinney comments ...
First, love your authentic lifestyle. Fearless and compassionate. Cheers.
Second, I'm not sure about UK law, but in the US you can start a non-profit organization and file for tax-exempt status. You can then write the book as a volunteer employee of the non-profit and claim no wages. I'm no lawyer, but I believe this would keep you from having to pay taxes on the money earned and you would then already have a legal entity with which to buy the land for your community. As long as you never used any of the money for personal wealth and all ownership of land was in the name of the organization, I believe this is free and clear.
If UK law does not permit this, I might suggest founding the community in the US to take advantage of the tax-exempt status. I'd certainly be happier to have your ideas a continent closer.
Getting tax-exempt status usually requires having some significant reason, religious or charitable. If you happen to be religious you can incorporate as a religious community. If you are not, you can attempt to file as a secular charity but you'll need to be careful about what your cause is and who you are actually helping. Also, the more people who are associated with your organization, the easier it is to get tax-exempt status (in my inexpert opinion).
Give it a go!
Mark Boyle comments ...
Thank you for all your advice, please keep it coming, it's all really useful. I can't respond to all emails individually but I am reading them all. ONE IMPORTANT THING - IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE REAL LIFE FREECONOMY COMMUNITY, PLEASE EMAIL ME OR LEAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS. Thank you all so much, keep the advice coming, great to be sharing the planet with you all!
Lord Ivan Canas comments ...
If you do not continue doing it you are letting a lot of people down who have believe you and admire you. Buy a plot of land where you can continue. You are becoming a leader and more people than you think is there supporting you with all their heart! If you don't many people are going to think that you were not serious.
cabbageman comments ...
I would like to be kept updated on the community and what's happening.
Thanks
news_pix@hotmail.com
Marion comments ...
Hello, have you read about George Monbiot and his reclaim the land project/CRASS/Diggers and Dreamers? It seems that dreams can be scuppered by those who have vulnerabilities of all sorts (mental health etc)....unless your intent is to help meet those needs. I admire your engaging with the shades of grey. A long time ago I had dinner with a freegan doing a similar thing but in retreat having given up on causing change. You are young without dependents and I imagine that will not be forever. Travelling communities and their children, without ownership rights often have a rough time. I have just bought my land and intend to use it for agroforestry and education but I have a lot to learn on the way and having been involved in WWOOF, guerilla gardening, frontline homelessness work I have had no qualms about enclosing...being a private buyer. Perhaps feel it's especially important as a woman with child. But I will keep hold of my intent to be something and do something good with my professional income privilege..but I will not give any others (as far as I can) the opportunity to eradicate my work. I would suggest don't worry about the judgment of others but protect your vision and perhaps imagine where you want to be in 10 years! Perhaps the cash in this instance could be considered a transfer of energy just/reciprocity for your effort and creativity. It looks like you've been careful to avoid hidden harms. Congratulations on your publishing deal and much luck.
Jane comments ...
I'm interested. I think its also about one's own quality of life. I feel so disconnected from the things I buy. I'd much rather shop in a charity shop, grow my own or swap or barter. It somehow gives things a story, a context, a landscape, a connection, a texture.
karen chard comments ...
Mark, I would get the land with the money (i think!). Your initial moneyless living was for a year, you have done your year, you can now justify earning a bit to get the land then live moneyless for the rest of your life.xx
And I will definitely come and visit. lol I too am trying to find a way of getting land to do pretty much what you are talking about. My stumbling block at the moment is, being a lone parent to 2 children whome I home educate so I am in receipt of benefits - I just cant quite work out how to get the land at the moment but totally believe it will happen. Then no more claiming and no more money........ My good friends and I dont exchange money, we trade, exchange and support each other, you are not alone in your beliefs...... There is the possibility that someone would give you the land, but that could take a long time coming your way, if you spend your earnings on buying the land you can start your new life straight away!....
Richi Morton comments ...
Of course buy as much land as you can - making sure you understand the topography necessary to set up a micro hydro system. Bullshit planning regs are the only thing standing in your way , but i understand these are being adjusted for micro hydro projects & green alternatives generally. It is VERY important you use the cash to show the world how easy it is to have a sustainable happy community with unlimited free power ! Lots of trees are always good too. Using old tyres & mud for housing - this is all you should be worrying about - not if ! Hope i have been (can be) of help & well done for the year mate .
Simon Aylward comments ...
I think buying a piece of land is a great idea. If you want to get your message across to the unconverted then a feature length doc or a documentary tv series would be my advice. On the face of it your life seems like it would be very easy to commission as a doc with the current climate of reality tv programmes. Please do not groan at the suggestion of reality tv, I suggest it because it could reach a large unsuspecting audience. I can see it now, "Is a man without money just a monkey?"
I wish you well whatever you do...
dan comments ...
bank the money for the project. wherever it goes tax is inevitable so that is not worth thinking about. good luck. great idea. i think the trick will be to crate multiple communities before the first gets too big then you know that your model is transferable.
Yarrow comments ...
Buy the land, it is a basic human right to have access to the earth that has been taken away from us for so long that most people never consider it to be anything other than ''how it is'', that we need to work within the economy to have our basic needs met. I'm sure you know all this anyway but I just wanted to support that knowing. The land/earth will be in good hands and on the terms of the ones who may otherwise take it away, I hear your dilemma and celebrate your choices, gratitude for your journey and your intelligence and your spirit. xx
driftwood comments ...
Firstly how time flyes when your having fun, and being an avid reader of your blog its safe to say you have had your fair share of ups and downs but what an experience.
For me and my family to be able to visit and stay at a real moneyless community and to learn the skills needed to enter this slower and more rewarding way of life away from the "money world"
So from a selfish point of view it has to be option 4 although i feel strongly that it should be down to us all to make this happen, not just one man. Huge respect to you mark take care :)
joeblow comments ...
Hello old chap! its a shame your stomping ground is so far from the south, still, Yorkshire goes to sleep in October so it would be a dodgy diet of potatoes and cabbage during winter. Anyway, being the irascible, madness hating, bearly capitulating secret agent of a broken cog I can offer you advice on all things technical for your community. I can help you with setting up windmills, solar panels, led lighting and have access to brilliant minds with brilliant knowledge and skills - so if i dont know, i bet i know someone who does!
Wish we all had the money to be free! :-)
Danielle comments ...
Go with no 4. I think that it's advisable to live as close to your dream as possible without being too much of a purist. If you become too fundamental about things, you can corrupt your original ideals. I totally understand your qualms about giving $ to govt in war etc but I don't think anyone would think you a hypocrite for spending the $ on continuing the dream. That's just my opinion. Good luck with it!
Luke Austin comments ...
You must make a difficult choice. When I am truly torn it is because I know what is right in the end but the means of getting there is unfavorable. I think you already know your choice its just a matter of acting on your conscience. -Good luck compadre
comments ...
The code I have to type in to publish this comment are the words 'pay - queried'. Not sure if that's completely random or set up by you, but quite apt I feel.
You have demonstrated a way of life that is possible, a way of making choices for one's self of how you want to live and finding the means to do so. I think by following your heart whilst listening to your head, you have been presented with the means of fulfilling your passion's goal. The money world that sadly dominates has dictated that you should be rewarded for your written words not with the land itself, but with the means to acquire it. Sort of using it to point out it's own inadequacies. Or, a bit of poison is the antidote. I think your dream is shared by enough people to over weigh any criticism others, who haven't quite grasped what it is you're doing, may have of the money-less man using money.
More power to you, I say.
One love.
Daniel comments ...
After reading a couple of your blogs, I feel that you may be misplaced in your decision to go "old school". Money is not the root cause of the problem. How can something that we create be the root cause? That is like identifying with the body as who you are? Human beings by nature are social and by social I mean that we have to be in common union. Unfortunately most of our brothers and sisters are in common union about the current political machine we have and for money. The key to change is in money and politics as it is a manifestation of our current common union. Politics and money are not designed to change and that is its main issue. It is like the ego. Politics should exist for a need and with a purpose to abolish that need. We need to change our mindsets and change our already existing common union. The fact that you understand the world of money should be your reason to be involved with it. Ask yourself.. How can you create a change in our already existing common union? How can you make it that money will one day destroy the need for money? Money is here now. Denying it will not make your human family see it in a different light. Now that you can see the duality. What is the current reality and what is it YOU can do to change us as we are now?
Georgina comments ...
Alright Mark and everyone, wow my heart was beating fast with excitement when I read that you're thinking about using the proceeds to buy land. Finally a light! Nice one also on your book publication deal, well done! I thought after reading all the reply s how confused and indecisive you must be feeling, probably why you lived a week in silence! The initial idea is the best thing that can be done in society at the mo, showing by example that we can live harmoniously with and as nature in a sustainable way; we need it to happen for reasons we all know but feel powerless to do. Those running the show out there at the moment are completely lost with it all, destruction and greed is their answer. However, ask yourself if you could do all the pre-organisational work, deal with ego's, deal with land and community living legalities and obstacles thrown at you from Government council's who want overall control over the land. In my view it's a great idea and there's so many people able help and offer skills but as you probably know already, it would be chaos to organise, tho positive ventures always come together. Land is easy to come by, just got to put in the effort researching the areas. Scotland at present is a good bet, what with the climate becoming warmer and parts of the land has been untouched so the soil would be perfect for growing veg........ Only YOU can decide Mark. I hope you don't feel obliged to go ahead just because everyone else wants to. (but go on! ; )) Anything you do will be right for you. Go with your instincts. From the book 'love, freedom, aloneness' by Osho, this quote rings out: 'Love yourself. Without food the body is weak, without love the soul is weak. And no state, no church, no vested interest has ever wanted people to have strong souls, because a person with spiritual energy is bound to be rebellious.' All the best m x
kat comments ...
I would have to say 4, with just a couple of stipulations
1- if possible, have oneworld purchase the land for you as a barter for your book- and sign the deed to you or make it so that you won't owe money for the land
2- the remaining proceeds, if any, should put towards lowering the cost of the book.
Malcolm Coxall comments ...
Hi Mark
I may have a solution for your ethical and economic problem, maybe. Drop me a line at malcolm@cornelio.es and we can discuss a couple of ideas
DB comments ...
You know you have your land as it is now, if I have it correct - by working on a farm. Perhaps there are owners out there willing to offer up some land, if workers would maintain a section of farmland.
Have the money sit in rubber bands, a top your dresser, as you roam the country-side. Door to door for available land looking for workers. And if discouraged - the money's there - unfortunately as I put tempting you like the devil everyday you wake up.
Obbie Z comments ...
I had extensive experience with an intentional community in the USA that supported itself by selling propaganda on the streets promoting its ideals. One of those ideals was a society in which money doesn't exist. The motivations were rooted in deep environmentalism, and covered a lot of the pitfalls of money becoming an end goal, rather than a means of achieving a goal.
Obviously, there were paradoxes and contradictions in promoting a world without money while needing money day-to-day in the world we've got. I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the USA we have property taxes, so even if one were to succeed in covering all needs without money, you could still lose your land if you can't keep the taxes paid. The ideal is to live on NO money, the realistic result is to live on VERY LITTLE money. The ideal is perfection... perfection is what we strive for, but in many ways is impossible. The best we can do is to get very close to it.
The community had a collective income and collective bills, but money did not change hands among the individual members. So as individuals we were "free" from dealing with money, while certain members took charge of collecting the proceeds of the week's merchandising, paying bills for taxes and utilities, and approving the "shopping list."
This kind of leads to the biggest hurdle: social structure and group decision-making. It's difficult to find the happy medium between authoritarianism and anarchy. One model is efficient but no fun, the other feels free but nothing gets done. I left the community I was with for 13 years because it was too authoritarian. I've passed on chances to join others because they were too anarchic.
I wish you all the best. Oh, and I would use the book proceeds to buy the land. Any extra money is best invested in things that will reduce/eliminate future needs for money. You seem to be on the right track. I can help with insight gained from my experiences, but to help physically in the long term would require two long-term visas (for my wife and me).
Cheers.
----
Obbie Z
La Crosse, Wisconsin USA
Amanda comments ...
If you are thinking along the lines in #3 of an arrangement with your publisher in which the publisher donates the money for you and you don't claim it as income then you could have the publisher purchase property for you and possibly even set up a trust to pay taxes so you don't have any contact with the money- but that only separates you from it in semantics. You're participating in the "system" by having the book published. You cannot prevent the publisher from turning a profit or your chosen cause from spending the money or from some entity having to buy/sell property.
While it may seem contrary to your purpose using the proceeds from the book to promote (the change you want to see) in others isn't. #4 is really the only logical option I see- unless somehow #3 enables somebody else to do so.
lucy fleetwood comments ...
Hi Mark,
This is the first blog I have read, can I get the back-dated ones?
Really interested in how you managed this.
Lucy
Martin Bailey comments ...
Go with option 4 as it will give the best long-term result!!
zaa comments ...
buy the land. it is essential. property is theft but then everything is theft in this world at the moment.
it will be the exception that proves the rule--- to use the money to live forevermore without it. its not like you'd be buying the land and then going to ikea!! :)
Tom comments ...
Option 4! Set up a charitable foundation according to your own principles and instruct it to buy the land and donate it to the community. It might seem like an unpalatable thing to do right now, but I think in a year or two you'll look back and accept it was the right thing to do. It also fits in with your aim of getting your book to as many people as possible which is why you went with the publisher you did, in the end. Having a piece of land owned by the foundation will give you a secure basis for the next stage of your project and you would be giving yourself the best chance of being heard by the people you are trying to reach. Most of this audience will admire the fact that you didn't just cash in on the book, they won't question the ethics of setting up a foundation. It would be pointless to give the money away to a publisher, agent or any other business. Also, you are likely (in my opinion) to generate more money in the future, so unless you are prepared to keep giving it away, set up something strong and sustainable that uses the money according to your values but insulates you in some way from its use. If you can find someone to donate some land, let them donate it to the foundation. This also gives them some security about its use and means that you personally are not beholden to them in some way. Land is expensive and good land is hard to come by even if you are buying it. Really good luck with everything, I will keep an eye on what you're doing and hope I can ride over and visit the community some time!
Erika Davis comments ...
Hi Mark, great thing you are doing. Our little bit is growing our own, including breeding chickens; not using large stores like Tesco; using farm shops, and generally not buying crap we don't need...not perfect but heading in the right direction.
I would suggest you buy that land, it may not fall into your lap for a very long time, but put it into trust. Though that will initially involve a solicitor, a couple of your 'money side' friends could be the trustees. Hope to visit your freeconomy land project in the future. I'll keep an eye on the blogs. Good luck for the future.
Sandy comments ...
I haven't read all your blog but can get a feel for the direction you are in.
I just want to add one point. Barter and money are pretty much the same thing. I think the value of something is what needs to be assessed and changed. For example the cost of teaching a child to read or real cost of growing an orange. Nothing in our western society is valued at it's proper cost. To run away and only have a few like minded people working together separate from society cannot possible have as much effect as living and changing things from with in.
It is hard to live with out being hypocritical and you will always have to make concessions.
gotta go sorry
baby just woke up
I am going to keep reading your work!
thank you!
Andy Daly comments ...
I think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture here Mark. You need to ask yourself exactly what you are trying to acheive with the whole Freeconomy idea. Are you thinking about yourself and what you can personally achieve, or are you thinking about the world, and what we can achieve together? Sure, you could set yourself a strict set of rules about having zero involvement with money, and you can live by these rules religously until the day you die. You will leave this world knowing that you have made as little detrimental impact as possile. Well done you. On the other hand, you could allow yourself to have a little 'wiggle room' on your own goals in order to allow other people the chance to follow in your footsteps. This could lead to a positive impact that is at the very least tens or hundreds of times more substantial than anything you could do on your own.
If we are to achieve anything in life, we must be determined, yet realistic. Imagine a world in which we could flick a swtich, and all of a sudden it became impossible to use fossil fuels. Nice idea, but the world would be in anarchy. As with anything so deeply rooted in today's world, if we want change then the best way we can go about it is through steady transition.
Just my thoughts...
Tom comments ...
Dear Mark,
Your journey is inspirational. Regarding your questions, I have two suggestions.
From a philosophical perspective, you might want to read Joseph Campbell's The Hero With A Thousand Faces - I believe this might help.
In terms of what to do with the proceeds from your book, you might want to contact Jacob at http://earlyretirementextreme.com. Please don't be put off by the URL, I think the two of you have a lot in common.
Best of luck!
Andrew Almond comments ...
Firstly good on you for doing this. Is there more to he gained in terms of support, perhaps from the local community if you obtain land without payment? By buying the land, the foundation of the idea might come in to conflict with what is to follow, such a delicate and complex community as you are looking to create might benefit from taking the longer, and more difficult route of acquiring land by other means.
Also I think it will be a lengthy and difficult process setting up a charity but think there are other means to keep the money at arms length. I do not think you should be rash though, if you wish for the proceeds from the book to do good then who better to invest that money than yourself!
Simon Dorey comments ...
Why not ask them to buy the land and swap the book for the land ??
nathaniel@osiris.f9.co.uk comments ...
While my dreams have not gone as far as yours I have been working the last few years towards a life of self sufficiency. Buying a piece of land in the year round growing season of the western Algarve would be my idea of heaven. I would then invite like minded individuals to come and share the work and fruits of the land. I've seen 32 acres for around 100k Euros. It's still beyond my means at the moment.
I know a guy who's living a hybrid of the dream.
Laurie at Tepi Valley. http://www.surfalgarve.com/thecamp.htm How do you feel about people who still use cash. I imagine we need a society model that has steps towards an ideal rather than mass upheaval?
I'm curious, in a cashless society how do you motivate people who are lazy? You couldn't just refuse them food. What do you do?
I've also done some rough calculation and with all the humans in the world if we occupied the entire surface of the world (which we can't) there'd still be 14-15 people per km2. once mass farming goes and bin scavenging will that be enough land to keep us all going? Human population decrease is inevitable (and welcomed by me).
Paz
Nathaniel
Caraline comments ...
It sounds like you know what you want to do, but you cant quite give yourself permission to do it. Gently ask that bolshy inner business man to get off your heart, take some deep breaths and have a conversation,the three of you (going with your metaphor). What is he so afraid of? perhaps there is a way he would feel safer - and he does sound frightened to me. what does your heart say? is there any way she is being impulsive and careless? or, once the pressure of that bully is off, is she truely trustworthy? some dialogue between them will disolve the tension out of the situation and make it easier for you to see.
VMH comments ...
3 or 4 - either way I'm guessing you will be happier than if you pick 1 or 2. Option 3 supposrts a worthwhile cause and option 4 supports other people itching to do what you do but that hesitate to do it on their own - trying with other like minded characters in a community makes it less scary especially of you have a family to consider.
At the end of the day 3 & 4 end the same
Best of luck :-)
david comments ...
give the money to someone you trust and get them to purchase the land , your dilemma is solved, the only concern you have to think about is who do you trust, good luck with your book i cant wait to read it
Nicole comments ...
I would rule out your head and your heart and go with what your guts say - your instincts - as that is where true inspiration, intuition and insight arises from to make the right decision.... I wont tell you what option to go for, as you already know the answer.
Sometimes a decision needs a little bit of the bad to make way for a lot of the good, and insight shows that you cannot have one without the other. Embracing the bad will allow you to be truely greatful for all the good that comes from it.
Good luck x I believe what you are doing is courageous and if you need any help, give me a shout xxx
Zach comments ...
What a fortunate blessing it has been to StumbleUpon your blog and lifework, as I am struggling with similar issues in my architectural thesis. It is great to find similar thinking people to help you realize you are not going crazy. :)
All four options are good ones. If I am reading correctly, you ultimate goal at this moment is to obtain land to expand this project you have started. You can take the route that requires money, or the one that does not. Money provides a more certain outcome - your past experience with money tells you that by using the money from the book with allow you to obtain the land to move forward. Without the money is not as certain, as I am sure you have discovered in your project thus far. It requires patience, resourcefulness, and faith in fellow human beings. Traits that are all skipped over when using money. As much as I want to say "take the money, don't use it like a greedy consumer normally would", I feel that faith in those often skipped over traits is what got you to where you are now, and to proceed without them is a farce. On the other hand, money has not always been for corrupt causes. It has proven itself beneficial in many ways, also something I am sure you know by now. And despite your reasoning for not using money, and this feels odd to type, but whether you give money to a government in a war or not, the war is still going to progress with or without your money. It's horrible, but perhaps the better way to do this is to stay focused on the ultimate goal. If time is a large enough issue for you, use the money. If it is not, then proceed as you have throughout your project. Your goal will fulfill itself regardless. In my own thesis project, I am struggling with the idea of Balance in life and in architecture. It seems like such a simple idea, but balance is such a huge part of life, and it is a life-long journey of understanding which can never be fully explained or know. I hope you find the balance between your heart and mind, He and She. It is always a struggle, but that doesn't mean it has to be a painful struggle. It can be a playful, joyous, and happy struggle as well. Stay positive. I know you can do it.
I have only read this one post, and I always feel weird suggesting readings to others, but I just read 'the seven spiritual laws of success' by deepak chopra. It is simple but powerful read. I don't know your beliefs, and I have no intention to offend, but I have found it to be quite helpful in my journey, and thought it may help you in yours.
I wish you the best. I hope to come visit your community one day. peace.
z. wilson
Marc comments ...
For me, it would be a no-brainer: I'd go for option 4. This will enable you to live your dream and enable others to live it too. Keep it up!
Michelle comments ...
Hi,
>
> I was just reading the article in the guardian regarding your drastic
> change in lifestyle. Amazing!
>
> This lead me on to your website.
>
> The correct choice is 4, you should write the book and with the proceeds
> start up a Freeconomy Community i think people would be interested as you could share the experience with others whilst picking up
> skills to support the lifestyle would work.
>
> All the best.
>
> Michelle
anneb comments ...
Maybe you could have the money placed in a trust for a specific project, such as the freeconomy community. That way, you wouldn't have to 'touch' it yourself. You might want to ask a lawyer!
Silani comments ...
Why don't you buy land for organic farmers to use, with land set aside for the no money community. So many people would like to farm organically but can not afford land. This would be symbyosis of the best sort.
You seem to have a tall rocket stove. Does that make it work better?
naialani comments ...
Ancient Hawaiians lived off the land .They were stewards of the land. They lived from the mountain to the sea. It took that much land and water to run the village. If you are going to have a free community you are gonna need the right piece of a lot of land. 4 sounds like a good idea.
Quantum Grandma comments ...
4... has the most long term promise. We humans need land to survive... and so much better that it be in the hands of those who hold it sacred and don't exploit it.
The potential to create a freeconomy on a piece of land is enormous.
Are there or do you have access to tax free property... reserves or protected areas that are amenable to such a concept?
As a native tribal landowner, I have long longed for this type of development... perhaps this will lead to such a fulfillment.
comments ...
Hi I can see both sides of your argument. On one hand you don't want to reenter the world of money but on the other hand to leave it proprely, i.e to obtain the land you need money. This is a tricky decision to make but I think your heart is correct. You will always need money for something so it is important to get used to its absence now.
QBR comments ...
I say get the land. That is what I think I would do. I would consider taking and using the money as a distasteful step in the right direction. Yes, someone might donate land to the cause, and I hope they do. But in the meantime, you could make a leap forward that would allow you a place to build the community you dream of.
That said, as I write this, something in me nags that that choice might not be completely integrous. The beauty of what you have been doing is that you seem to have been in integrity with yourself. If choosing to take the money and spend it on the land is something that you can fully live with , do it. If not...maybe you will have to choose a different path.
Woah, that is a hard one. Good luck, and thanks for what you are doing!
Jim Whitescarver comments ...
For me the immortality of using central bank debt based money is clear and I applaud your effort.
I see the elimination of money as an evolutionary process that will be enabled in cyberspace by fully distributed trading without any central hosts. This will break our slavery to the money power in a manner they are powerless to prevent.
I suggest we put any available resources into implimenting such a solution. I created a google code project along these lines.
http://code.google.com/p/meconomy/
Meconomy is a peer to peer distributed trading system using client
computer resources within maximally decentralized trust networks.
A database distributed across client machines of "haves" and "wants"
supports a personal trading agent that with other agents identifies
the minimal cost maximal flow low risk redundant path final trades to
meet "wants" utilizing "haves" according to personal valuations.
Additionally the system will support trading of monetized value of
commodity vouchers, capital partnerships, community currencies and
national currencies.
The rough beginning of a business plan are at
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dcxp6g34_0xxg5dngg
Jim
Jackie Winterbottom comments ...
Option 4 all the way. I would love to be part of such a community and I believe my husband would as well. We currently live and work in Philadelphia but are actively looking for a better way to live. I am looking forward to your book.
Matthew comments ...
Mark, Write the book and give it away. We can never realy own land. As the aborigonies say "like flees fighting over who owns the dog". Send the book into the world and let your words take their own course.
Keep living the way you are. Then more people will read it. At the moment you are the change you want to see. Keep doing so and you will inspire a wide range of people.
Getting land will be seen as just another eco/hippie commune and you would only inspire the already greens.
What you are doing now is more important.
Kind thoughts
Matthew
Ben from Ireland comments ...
Hi Mark,
This is the first time your story has come to my attention. I myself have always dreamed of a life without money and the stresses and strains of modern life. It gauls me in the job that I do that modern society is so incredibly wasteful of the resources at its disposal. I have never had either the ability or courage to enbark upon the massive change you have made in your own life and I take my hat of to you. I'm married now with three children so every decision I now make in my life directly involves four other people. Unfortunately you have now reached a crossroads. What has gone before involved you and you only. What you are now planning to do involves a lot more people with whom you would like to share the expierience and that noble as it may be comes with its own problems. Using the money however you may do it to buy land and facilitate a community of like minded people is in essence an wonderful idea. But Mark wether you would like to admit it or not it would need structure. Its your land, and at some stage in the future that is going to become an issue. Not everyone there will be as honest and organically minded as you. This is not an issue of money Mark but an issue of human nature.
Eoin O'Neill comments ...
Maybe it would be helpful if you studied some of the previous experiments in communal living that were also governed by sets of rules you might find guidance as to what compromises will lead you away from your goal? One might be http://www.g20pittsburghsummit.org/quality-of-life/cultural-phenomenon/old-economy-village/
It's clear you have an iron will and a clear mission.
Kind regards and I hope you resolve this dilemma
Daniel comments ...
Well let me first start off by saying a freeconomy community is an excellent way to go. I do think its a good idea and would love to check it out when you manage to get it off the ground.
I have thought about this idea alot and spent many hours wondering how a world/community might work. I think you're going down the right lines with the skill sharing idea. A community is set up where each man/woman can exchange skills instead of money is the best way forward. As long as all the needs of each individual can be met by the community or skills of another, you will acheive sustainability in your community. Of course you will be relying on finding non-selfish individuals. Anyways I wish you good luck and will watch your progress.
Ashwyn comments ...
The only thing that I have to say that has not already been covered by others is to be careful not to see a purchase as a permanent acquisition.
It is tempting to succumb to the idea that if you buy the land you can own it and liberate it from the cash economy. But in my opinon, liberty from the cash economy is not about physical space, because space cares not for money. What really needs to be purchased are the hearts and minds of the people.
And I think that the money from your book would be better spent this way.
If it helps, I know someone in Australia with a block of arable land. And I think that he would more than likely consider donating it. It is quite remote.
my email is ashwynf@gmail.com, I will try to contact him for you.
Jay comments ...
Maybe a novel idea...include in your book's marketing plan a challenge out to philanthropists that if someone steps forward to donate a suitable piece of land, then in exchange you will allow them to designate a charity to which all proceeds from the book would be directed. If nobody steps forward then you can still fall back on option 4. The media would love a story like that, which helps your book sales, helps the image of the philanthropist, and ultimately helps the charity...
Jack comments ...
Hmm...a complex but necessary problem. I would say whatever you do the most important thing is to continue to do it with patience and peace. So it's important not to declare war on money but to gently pursuade people and reveal to them the true squalor of the world that it produces. Maybe you're always going to have to make subtle negotions with the wider economic world but i don't think that will necessarily mean you compromise your principles. Directly or indirectly, using money to purchase the land is essentially using money to liberate land from money, for good. I think there is something quite poetic in that. Meaningful ethical living is new to me but i'm sure it's my future and so thank you so very very for your voice and example, it's deeply inspiring.
César comments ...
A real life free-economy community, isn't that a dream? I imagine that and I think of it as paradise. You are asking for advice but you already know what you want, I would say just follow what your heart tells you like you have been doing all this time. I would love to be part of it, but I lack of ideas at this time about how could it be, I am going to dedicate some time to think about it though. =)
kyle comments ...
Mark , i think this is a good thing !!! it would take alot from someone to do what you have done !! most people would die if they had to do it !!!! ... I think it would be a great thing for all of us to do it , the kids would be better off , the families would end up being happyer .. and it would be great for the world , we are screwing up our earth pretty fast it seems to me ... the differance between 1962 and 2009 is way out there !!!! best of luck !!!!
morgan comments ...
OPTION 4!! PLEASE! Not only do I think this is an amazing idea, but I am completely interested in being a part of a freeconomy community. It has recently become an obsessed dream of mine, now that I've become aware of the ridiculousness of money and everything material and useless that it buys...that is how I came upon this blog, because I put "money-less community" in the search to see if any existed. I think you are amazing and so inspiring, and seriously if you go with option 4, I as well as friends and family will surely be all for joining in!
SurbitonPete comments ...
Mark I think what you are doing is brilliant but unfortunately it simply isn't something that could change the world for the better, it simply isn't possible for everyone to have a nice bit of arable land near a stream and some woodland and there are so many other reasons that it could only be something that a few people do. The Venus project and the Zeitgeist movement seem to have the only practical, workable idea for how to rid the world of money and the greed that goes with it. Yours is a fantastic idea to provide a way for a few to escape from the awful monetary system for a while but everyone would have to return to it in the end.
Pat Wynne comments ...
I appaud your efforts! I too would love to find a way to live like this. I believe there are sound reasons for the evolution of a money economy, although I agree that its got completely out of hand. Surely a compromise is possible? As a pensioner I'm amazed and very grateful for my pension, but then I still have a mortgage and run a car because my family are far-flung. What to do?
Chrissie comments ...
Buy land. The book gets the message out. If you give people the chance then to come and try your way of life for a weekend/week/month then there is more chance of making a difference. People will buy the book but if you can set it up so people can actually come and try it for a few days you can get far more across than any book can. Yes you may get many people who will try it and then go away back to their old ways but even if for every 1000 you get one person to really change their lifestyle then you really will have put that money to good use.
Barry Mendez comments ...
Hi Mark. I quit my job eight years ago, sold all my posseions and decided to work for God and NOT money. I live by faith, and trust God to feed me, and HE does. The simple message I share with the world everyday is work for love and money. Just saying that seems to be enough to keep me busy. Anyway, feel free to write to me. It's great that you made this leap. Keep going don't ever stop brother. My email is ozlisteners@gmail.com
Peace,
Barry.
antony ferret comments ...
I read your blogy thing thanks to my friend georgina ,ive been trying to get some people to invest and buy some land ,on which we can live susstainably .I dont know if uyou know land roots .anyhow most people dont seem to have the kahunas to go for it in any real way,only in theory .I just want to be part of a community that isn't shiting all over the planet .what i'm trying to say is that ive mannged to save up nearly 10000 euros to put towards some land .please help me get out of the rat race ,together we can be strong and set the standard for the rest of babylon.
Kristin comments ...
Buy the land under a charity! You will be a non-profit organisation who are offering the world education through workshops etc.
I can't wait till you do it so I can come down and learn how to live like this as well.
Guy Sheard comments ...
Option 4.
You need to take this opportunity to make the moneyless community happen as it may not come up too easily again.
Best of luck with the whole thing. It sounds like a fantastic opportunity to develop decent human relationships and a sense of sastisfaction
Dan Kahn comments ...
Mark - glad to meet you, and grateful for your thinking and sharing process around this question. I have a date to help a friend move out of her house in a little while, so my comments will be abbreviated. From what I've read from you, I have lots of trust in your decision-making. I'm grateful to you for reaching out for input, and I strongly believe in whatever process you choose to work this out. My heart and the rest of my being leans in your favor, and wishes for kindly winds to fill your sails or cool or warm you, as needed. dankahn2468@yahoo.com
Tom comments ...
Mark, option 4, a charity you set up, with the missio statement to free the world from money as far and wide and deep as one can go, and the difference with you Mark, is that you have a leadership responsibility, that needs a base from which to grow, and nurture the aspiring free economists, of the new kind, it is a world changing vision, that needs to happen, if we are to avoid the collision course humanity is on with the earth. Having been involved in many new communities, establishing either around permaculture, or healing arts, I can say with some conviction, that money and land, creates politics, and having a step removed from you making financial decisions, the charity structure could support your core vision, without opening up the space to distractions. BUT, the charity needs to be absolute core people, that you absolutely trust, and those persons need to have absolutely solid integrity. I'm sure the right team will be created - that is dedicated to your base training ground, initially as a global base, from which will grow a truly worldchanging movement. Nest of luck with it, I will be looking on keenly, making plans to do the same here in Australia. Viva la Freeeconomy!
danny boyle comments ...
set up a Panama Trust, donate your manuscript to the trust, let all proceeds from the book go to the trust. Let the trust purchase the property for the farm, open your community. The money that the trust receives is completely tax free and other than a yearly registration fee in (no money to support a war that you disagree with) has no tax liabilities in Panama. The trust can exist for a limited time period or for ever.
I came across an article on you in the guardian newspaper and was compelled to read it because of your name. I am originally from London but have spent more time out of England than in it. I have been living in Costa Rica for the last 9 years.
Good luck in your endeavor, regards, danny. you can reach me via dannyboylecr@yahoo.com or skype, dannycr5
jem comments ...
This is an inspiring project you are engaged in Mark, not every one on the planet has the good fortune to sit in a nice warm caravan ( made of aluminium and plastic?) and cycle about on a bike collecting chestnuts.
Go for it mate, millions of people on the African continent are now getting basic healthcare cos some silly bugger made crap loads of money(ooh dirty word) out of computers then decided to give it away.
If you have real compassion for the worlds starving you will be able to further your dream of sustainable living and the land will be there as will the people, this has been demonstrated many times in the past. One reality check though, this Government that you are concerned about giving money to, is it the same one that would send an ambulance to pick you up when you fall off your bike or is their a network of moneyless health services we should all know about?
zengardner comments ...
Hi Mark,
Thank you for sharing your experience. It gives me encouragement in the project that I am about to embark on and one that I think might interest you as well.
you write:
"it says write the book as well as you can, give it every ounce of your soul, get it out to as many people as possible and use the money to liberate a piece of land from this money-driven world of private property, and put it back into collective stewardship, where we can put our ideals into practice on an everymoment basis."
Have you heard about the situation in Detroit, MI, USA? Very much like the shameful waste of food that exists in our modern world, Detroit is an entire city going to waste.
Why, well because people can't make the money to stay there. The the jobs have been disappearing along with the people since the 1970's
I can move to Detroit because I am a web developer and I can work anywhere there is a broadband connection. Because Detroit has all of the modern infrastructure, including cable internet, of a late 20th century city, I can make my living there as well. To that end I have purchase a house, a beautiful brick tudor style house, built in 1927 for $900.00 US. There are many others that are going for less. The catch, they have all been emptied of all metals and anything else that can be scrapped for money. Again that evil money driving destruction again.
You project is one that would bring the magic in making Detroit a viable city once again. Although it would be unlike most US cities. Much of the land is going back to nature and is being farmed by people who are able to do so.
I found my house on HUD's foreclosure website:
http://www.mcbreo.com/st_mimain.htm
All of the homes listed have links to Google maps and a property condition report by HUD. Disclaimer: the actual condition of the property may not be what it was in the report. There is a great deal of arson in Detroit and sometimes the houses are gone by the time it can be purchased.
If you look at the Google map listing it quickly becomes obvious how empty some of the neighborhoods are.
You can follow my progress in moving to Detroit at:
http://supergeeky.org
Here is a blog that I found inspirational to my Detroit project adventure:
http://detroitunrealestateagency.blogspot.com/
There are many more just look, Time magazine has been doing a series of articles on the downfall of Detroit. It's all "isn't" it awful and "Urban Blight Porn" stuff but I have found that the reality of the people in Detroit is one of kindness and hope.
mike v j comments ...
amigo - USE the money to support your ideals. It is no more than a tool - just think of it as being rewarded for your writing by being given a piece of woodland - except its a 'on paper' token for you to trade for the exact bit of gropound YOU want. With land you can have a base to share and expand your life choices to benefit yourself and others. Good luck and i envy your courage! x
Dave comments ...
make an ebook out of it and give it to the world for free, just like the information on thecrowhouse.com information should always be free and available for all
Jabird comments ...
Although I share your identification of many of the symptoms of modern society's ills, I don't personally see your project as part of a solution which will appeal beyond a certain niche of the very market you detest, but I'd love to see how the experiment went on a larger scale.
Much of what you are talking about seems to resonate with the Amish, except you are doing something on a secular basis, and I imagine your community could happily survive off a few discarded laptops (we don't all need Windows 7).
However, I don't think it is such an oxymoron to think that there aren't any philanthropists out there who wouldn't be interested in either donating land or leaving it in their will to such a trust (by either means, money might not have to change hands). Anyone watch Evan Davis interview Warren Buffet earlier this week?
Not all entrepreneurs are greedy money-grabbers - many of those who succeed do so because they all have a different idea of how they think society should work, and that view isn't always a conservative one.
chris keene comments ...
my ex girlfriend has set up a co-op which owns 44 acres of land in wales
Maybe i can persuade her to give it you
Pinchy comments ...
Take the money and get the land and be happy in the thought that the last money transaction a would be community member makes would be actually funding a place for them to aim for.........
I wish I had th ebottle to get out the rat race but its harder for some people than others, especially if your a granddad........
Sonja comments ...
Mark, I'd buy the land. What you've done for the last year is really inspiring, but for many people doing something similar would be too difficult without a few helpful stepping stones along the way. You could assist many people who might otherwise not feel adventurous enough to spend time living without money and getting back in touch with a simpler, more eco-friendly, more ethical way of living.
You wouldn't be compromising your moral standpoint by using the proceeds of telling people how you did it, to help more people try it out and hopefully breed an alternative culture of people who value experiences over things and lighten their footprints on the world.
That's got to be better for the planet than taking a path that may be principled but ultimately leaves the world no better off than before - just a healthier bottom line for a company that has no vested interest in the kind of change you've been working toward. I only wish I didn't live on the other side of the world and could participate!
PS: While the taxes you pay to the government are understandably a source of anxiety when they go toward things like war in Iraq, they also go toward health care for the community, public art, education (whether it's at a high enough standard or not), preserving culture and heritage, helping asylum seekers and providing public housing to people who can't afford their own home. It's flawed but there is good in there with the bad.
hannah comments ...
you could talk to the publishers and ask them to get you some land in exchange for the rights to the book.
Stuart comments ...
Well... as you say you are preaching to the converted here. I don't know if you read the comments this far down, but for what it's worth here's my view - coming as I did from a Google News article and not being a reader of your blog or neccessarily an advocate of your activisim.
First, do what your heart tells you. It seems to me you've already decided to go ahead and buy the land. If you're worried about paying taxes, why not up sticks and go live somewhere else? I'm not trying to be negative - it just feels to me that if you want to live in this country you have to abide by the laws and customs of this land. And yes, it does mean a capitalist society. There are ways and means as mentioned in these comments to avoid taxes, pay via a foundation, or via a charity. In fact why not go the whole hog and set up your own charity, buy land through the charity - and, yes, accept donations... although this would bring you back into the capitalist world.
You seem a very conflicted person. If you could justify your actions for the greater good, then settiing up a charity or foundation to help others do what you have achieved may help. But if you feel that the only right away to do this is to jump right in as you have done without help then that kind of defeats the objective, no?
You've asked for comments, so you already publish a blog, and in the great tradition of bloggers turning authors I wonder if this wasn't the end goal. Just go for it -- use the publicity, and the money, and wear your heart on your sleeve. Set up that charity. Turn it over to the control of a committee if you don't fancy the responsiblity, and live out the rest of your life off the land. Thinking to the future you might want to consider some land that has other land bordering it - for expansion - but be aware: owning your land isn't free. You have responsiblities, and yes , there are laws concerning your stewardship of the land. I feel you are happier being a tenant - even a freeloader - so if that's the case turn the land over to someone else to run.
Forager comments ...
Hi Mark,
I think it is good you have opened up this dilemma to others and that you are being honest about the current wrestling you are going through.
I don't think it is a black and white situation between options 3 and 4. However, whatever we do, I believe we need to do in faith. You will have the clearest idea about which option will be acting in faith most. My advice is to go with that one, as how we initiate something is certainly related to what follows.
I am also part of a community of people, none of whom work in a secular job, although we do use money (donations). In case you are interested, we are currently discussing the recent article about you that came out in the Guardian at the following link on our forum:
http://www.jesus-teachings.com/component/kunena/16-media-reports/29517-mark-boyle-lives-without-money-in-the-uk#29560
Love and peace,
Alf
John Hulton comments ...
If it were me, I would set up the Freeconomy Charitable Trust with the proceeds. The money from the book could be used to establish this educational trust and maybe set up a centre to promote the education and ideals of feeconomy principles and where people could stay for a few months whilst they could try living the sustainable way. (johnhulton@yahoo.co.uk)
brainfoggy comments ...
I don't think i have actually posted on this forum..and to join in at this level is probably not wise.. but i wanted to offer one more suggestion whether or not it is possible or feasible i have no idea.. but.. Would it be possible to have the land you need donated to the 'cause' rather than yourself by the Publishers of your Book stopping any money exchanging hands. Would that prevent you actually having to become self employed and having to donate anything to government. I am not sure how this is seen ie payment in kind etc... but perhaps it is possible that the Publishers are allowed to donate to causes or charities and therefore the money and taxes are coming from them... the land would therefore be an outright gift to a cause? As i said i am not an expert - it is only an idea for discussion. I commend all you do however and think whatever concessions you might have to make at the end of the day will be offset by the good it shall do. It takes time to make huge changes like the community is trying to do.
rik thomas comments ...
ha!!
to live a year without money is more than enuf in a world that starves you without money. your not going to save the world, everyone has to save themselves... now, that saving includes our soul...
we can't fix all this, but do the best you can.
Chris comments ...
I can only commend everything that you are doing and hope that you will honour my call for your help. Some friends and I are putting together a project to achieve very similar aims. If you are looking for a way to use the money from your book in a way that would further your ideas, please, please get in touch. If you would like to know more please get in touch.
Here is a link to our website: www.communityecolivingtrust.org
this gives a rough outline of what we aim to do. I would really appreciate an opportunity to meet and share some ideas.
All the best
Chris
Nick J comments ...
I don’t understand your dilemma. Your economy is not ‘free’ - it’s just that the funding of it is generally hidden away where it can comfortably be ignored. As an economist you must know that the waste food that you scavenge is only free to you because the cost of its production is spread across all the non-waste food that the rest of us buy. The roads you cycle on are paid for by others, the website you used must be funded somehow, and having the land donated instead of buying it will not make it any more ‘moneyless’ (after all, someone had to pay for it) - it all just appears cleaner to the naive. So your quandary is not whether you should engage with the money economy - you already do, despite your protestations. The question is whether you actually want to handle some dirty lucre. Are you of one mind with the innocents on this site that think it’s OK to be paid for a book with land, but not with cash? Surely payment is payment, whatever form it takes. Accept that the ‘freeconomy’ as you currently live it is no such thing, take the money and buy the land.
But use it to establish a true freeconomic community without scrounging the surplus of a bloated capitalist society, so that the self-righteous middle class freeloaders who have posted here can find out what genuinely living with no money - either yours or anyone else’s - feels like. It will, of course, be a subsistence society similar to pre-mediaeval England or today’s Sahel, but it will at least be a lot more authentically ‘free’ than living like jackals living on the leftovers of overheated consumerism.
Redd comments ...
4 is kind of the way forward but there may be other ways to achieve it which you would be more comfortable with.
I think the money and the future dream are not necessarily interlinked:
Firstly you need USE of land for your dream but do not need to OWN it. Use of land may be easier to obtain through the freeconomy, it is also a more inspirational act, as is living without money, to demonstrate people do not need to have vast sums of money to start a project like this. What your book will start is a much bigger community of freeconomy that you do not have at the moment, far more could be achieved than you have managed so far, so don’t underestimate it. Also there will be more people on the fringes who don’t take the plunge but are hugely sympathetic to your aims and will try to help too.
As for what to then do with the money, well your other dream is to spread your message via your book. The cost of the book will be a barrier to many people reading it, could the publisher re-channel the money you would be due back into making it cheaper, perhaps half the price? If they would not be willing to do that ,then can they pay you ‘in kind’ by giving you copies of the book which you can distribute to those who cannot buy it, or give to public libraries etc? If again they cannot do that then simply buy copies with your money.
peter comments ...
I agree with Nick J. Living without cash is not the same thing as living completely outside the money economy -- that's impossible. So stop wasting time on the debate and get the land! And btw, in the spirit of total transparency, what was your advance?
saf comments ...
I read your article in the inquirer or guardian online, I was geniunely intrigued by the concept of a freeconomy, Its what we humans where designed to do, animals actually forage their own food(e.g. birds, monkeys), and I think you should go with the 4th option not because my monopolistic brain tells me to, because that would be the the greater good, and your not exactly going to be living off the money you would recieve, your providing yourself and others to partake in the same philosphy, for which I wholly I agree with, money is an artificial control which must be gained or lost whereas natural resources are constantly replenished freely
Mark Boyle comments ...
@ Nick J, Peter and Georgina - good constructive criticism mixed with helpful advice. My long term plans will be for the community to live truly free, by producing all our own food etc. However, the argument you portray is not quite so simple as you would make it sound. Because the society we have been born into is covered in factories, motorways and roads, airports, shops, and all the other things that perpetuate the money system, there is very little wild food left. Or trees. Or land. Or other wild plants that can be used to make what you need. You have to work with the world you find yourself in. Is the pigeon who lives in the abandoned church in the city, because there are no trees left, a freeloader too? Or does it do what it does because it has no other choice anymore?
oakpoet comments ...
4 ..your heart tells you to ,so you have to declare and fund some to where you would rather not..but a small price to pay to get your log term plan off the ground.Compromise sometimes is the better part .Good luck with whatever you decide
Nick J comments ...
Mark, don’t get me wrong. I have no problem with your lifestyle: solar-powered mobile phones and dumpster-diving seem to me to be excellent ways of reducing energy consumption and waste in our bloated society. But you and your fans need to recognise that it is neither ‘free’ in any real sense, nor sustainable, and certainly does not make you morally or ethically superior to the rest of society. You are merely piggybacking on our (over)consumption and our ongoing investment. If we all stopped spending tomorrow, you’d be as stuffed as the rest of us, and the tantalum in your mobile is just as ethically compromised as that in mine.
As far as the motorways things is concerned: I think you’ll find that there is more than enough unbuilt land, even on this crowded island, to furnish you with space for the sort of smallholding that our pre-industrial ancestors had to sustain themselves. Some people already live a truly self-sustaining, genuinely off-grid lifestyle: but (by definition) they just don’t tend to blog about it.
hands0fwondr comments ...
understanding exactly where your coming from, being a purponant of peace and empowering the self, I understand the "dilemma" you see before you. However, our lives unfold based on the choices that we make every single day. money or no, it's your choice. Weather you stay moneyless or not, it's still your choice. What would I do? Well, I think the answer to that question is quiet obvious. I would say this, be true to yourself and what you hold to be of value in your heart. Don't "sell out" just to use a resource to get your book out when you can self publish and and stay money free. Of course, all this is just opinion and you will live with whatever choices you make in the end.
Live well my friend,
hands0fWondr
ascendingenergy.ucoz.net
alex871uk comments ...
can you have a faq pls. how did u get online for free? isn't what you're doing a little extreme? you can do moral things with money like the anarchists in 1930s spain or co-op's.
alex871uk comments ...
do you want everyone to forage in the woods? how could you expect women to bring up children in that environment?
Christina comments ...
Well the obvious solution to me, is no.4
However, I can completely understand the inner conflict that this action would put you in.
So... entrust the proceeds of the book to someone who can purchase the land on your behalf so that you can actually start this amazing project.
It would be a shame to allow such an opportunity pass you by.
Good luck
xx
Stephen comments ...
Why do you even need to publish the book? Take inspiration from Chris Anderson, and publish it free on the internet. No shipping, printing or hassle!
jon chalmers comments ...
if you are donated the land then at some point it will have had to have been paid for by someone. To ignor this, and pretend that it is some how free, is to be ignorant. perhaps accept that if the donor is you, then at least you can choose the best plot for your plan. good luck and i hope to come staywith you at some point.
John Bray comments ...
It seems to me that if you concede that you need money to buy land to make a freeconomy work then you've also conceded that life without money is NOT possible.
beah50 comments ...
Is there a way to make the contract with the publisher that they buy a piece of land in your name that you previously agree upon? Or even put it in a non-profit name/enterprise/group to keep it off the taxable side of things? There must be a way around money actually having to sift through your hands if you do not want it to. A publisher surely does not *have* to only compensate with money. This option is more along the bartering lines, certainly, than gifting but one step away from money is surely better than being directly involved with cash? Just some thoughts, anyhow. Best of luck to you and hopefully I would someday have the privilege of visiting and gifting the freeconomy community.
freida mai comments ...
go for number 4 saoirsie - free land - most honourable!
I will buy your book for people for christmas - that solves my ethical xmas prezzie challenge and i will come visit and help out with the ideas if you want - much love to you - Sharon and Katie xx
sharon - freida mai comments ...
i emailed you some suggestions Saoirsie - check your email x
people's ben comments ...
Give the money away, to something not immediately related, or burn it. Squat some land. Its what most people will have to do. You can't be fussy about a river and woods. Well done.
Brian comments ...
I read an article about the Nazca. I wondered if there were any way to reclaim this desert. Plant trees, import millions of tons of soil, create massive irrigation. I am sure you don't want to move to a Peruvian desert, but I'll bet there are areas that have been deforested and left to waste. Buy that. Buy trees. (Better yet get corporations to donate trees.) Move in. Become a steward of that land. I understand you don't want to be a part of capitolism, but if you have money and no wish to use it, then use it to make the world a better place. Create your colony on land that needs healing.
Rosie comments ...
Option 4 - then u HAVE the foundations for your dream in place. You'll then be able to attract support from like-minded "business" people. This demonstrates your intention. You are putting your money where your mouth is, if you'll pardon the pun :)
We haven't yet made the transition to a moneyless society, so I think compromise is ok.
Also, if u are getting the money anyway, of those 4 options this is most clearly aligned with your dream, & would be the "next step", so go for it!!
Simple!
Maria comments ...
4 either under your name or under the name of a charityfounded by you. Your stiry is very insipiring regardless, what an example.
Nick Routledge comments ...
Mark, hi. You're not alone. I'm Stateside, like you a trained economist, and I lived for about 4 years without using any money. The 'countercultural impulse' link off the Observer sketch touches on some of the wherefores. Press on, sir!
http://www.seedambassadors.org/avalon/bio_09.htm
n
Martin comments ...
Dear Mark.
In my opinion, money you may have in your hands in near future should be reinvested into your beliefs, dreams and your heart. Buy this land! That would be a last payment to the "outside world of money" and your dreams and ultimate plans would be one big step closer. "Return on the investment" would be of enormous value and may trigger some great movements in the new community. As I always say, if you can buy your way out of all this, then DO IT! You're buying true freedom. I would not think twice about this. DEFEAT THEM USING THEIR OWN WEAPON. Good luck !!!
Anna comments ...
I think 4 - I understand the dilemma but in a world so entrenched in one way of life it is very difficult to make the transition without engaging with the dominant rules of the game albeit to subvert them.
I think that a living case study is one of the most powerful tools in reassuring people that alternative is not only possible but also enjoyable.
Martin comments ...
... OR better yet, go moneyless and try to exchange your copy-rights for a piece of land.
seirian comments ...
what you need to do is educate people about what you're doing. people who arent already converted, like us lot reading this blog.
everyone is saying do number 4, it's your dream. but isn't the whole point of what you're doing to show people that there's something more important than themselves? if you buy some land you're going to end up with a lovely hippy commune and it'll all be nice and good, you'll grow food, make music and live for free... and have lots of nice fluffy visitors but these arent the people you need to convert.
your money would be better spent setting up an educational foundation/trust which goes to schools and communities around the country and teaches them about the way we should be lviing. people who don't know who you are or what you do. as with your aim with the book - get it out to a wider audience.
maybe you're wrong. maybe someone will give you a peice of land. what about the guy who swapped a paperclip for a house? there are a lot of good people out there, and a lot of good people with money and land!
fancypants comments ...
Hej mark, if a benefactor gave you some land it would still have originated from a commercial transaction..If you buy it yourself, it will be from financial gain made from writing a book about living a non financial life..You are in the horns of a catch twenty two dillema.Good luck Brother
AmberStar comments ...
If your publisher won't buy & donate the land in exchange for your writing, take the money & buy the land. It's not only for yourself; it's for everybody who wants you to succeed & come see how it's done.
Michael comments ...
Why not try to find someone who will publish it for free using your principles and then you won't have a problem what to do with the proceeds if you believe in a no money ethic this has to be your starting point.....no question. It wouldn't be that difficult if you start to think about it.
Mark the big question you seem not to answer is why does it all seem like a big ego trip for you - if you had gone off for a year and done it without the media on board it would have been more interesting. You also seem to get a lot of help, probably a lot more that we don't hear about. Stop writing about it and just do it when you're "good" enough all your dreams the ones you portray in the media and the ones you haven't yet considered will be fulfilled. At the moment you're becoming just another part of the problem....
Kieran comments ...
i'm 17 and my interpretation is you're trying to live a life of purity. it's platonic to the extreme, if you are that philosophically motivated follow the categorical imperative and write the book online and hope it attracts a following. however seeing as you lived with money i doubt it. i also doubt you're going to get corrupted by taking the money like Orwell's pigs. do the taxfree charity thing, ONLY after trying to find people who would donate land.
the choice is follow your imperative or accept the not so acceptable sounding means to justify your perceived greater end.
seeing as you wanted a laptop despite being called a hypocrite means the choice is already made. you want the money to make a free-economy - however isn't it ironic that capitalism/money is needed to further your dream - similar to how it can engulf communism? what a terrible paradox, one i hope isn't true. i presume your little piece of land will be communal and thus controlled - thus freeconomy? sounds like a bad choice of name [despite the double-layer]
Simon Baverstock comments ...
Mark, I can see your options, and sat with them right up until you wrote, 'as always, it comes down to land', when right at that part my heart said Purchase the land.
When you have been motivated to come along your road in line with your vision, it seemed sensible then to accept what the fruit of that vision offered. ie, the wherewithal to further it.
I have followed a differing vision for four and a half years. And my challenge has involved heart directed decisions as well as pure common sense ones. But I do not regret the heartfelt ones.
If you accept the proceeds to purchase your own land and your path seems smooth as you progress, maybe you are making the right choice. If it stops being smooth, or becomes something you feel is taking you away from loyalty to your vision all you need do is then put your proceeds back out of land and into an ethical disposing option and go back to what your heart tells you. You'll have lost nothing but gained the experience of an honest and motivated experiment.
Hope you find your path.
Simon
Hollis comments ...
I think you should do idea #4. Like you said, the world is not just black and white, this would be a good idea to allow this freeconomy to experiment at a larger scale. Good luck with your decision.
jonathan tanis comments ...
A Daoist saying,
"When purpose has been used to achieve purposelessness, the thing has been had"
The trouble is not in the money but in the attachment to the money. Buy the land, I'll be there.
Judy comments ...
I can't wait to read your book, and I will happily pay for it if it means that the money goes to buy your piece of land. Thank you for reminding us of what is possible.
paulC comments ...
Hey Mark, just got to hear about your cashless living and thank you for setting a fine example. There seem ome very good practical suggestions in the comments below. It seems to me that your heart, humanity and conscience got you this far and are serving you well. Stick with them, eh. Looking forward to catching up on a year of blogs and getting active in the freeconomy community. One more thing for now, those folk who are giving you flak sound like the sort of people who'd rather find holes in the ideas and efforts of others than try to make a difference themselves; YOU ARE making a difference, thank you for it and please don't let these small minded folk distract you. Ta, paul.
roy comments ...
this seems like the only options i see here = 4;
follow marks suggestion if u are going to find a plot of land ...it is unlikely anyone will give it to you for free ..we are humans in a human world ... so we must all be hypocrites someday ... use money to buy land for a community without money ..thats the only way at present time ..
``````````````````
There is a way to avoid "Giving money to a government involved in war in the middle east". Set up a charity and dnoate the copyright in your book to the charity. The charity will receive royalities tax free. The charity can then buy the land in its name.
``````````````````
cheers
n good luck mark lol
michael comments ...
I see nothing wrong with using proceeds to buy land to further your goals. As others have mentioned money will be necessarily involved in some way or form, even if it doesn't pass through your hands. The point is to not profit for your personal benefit, but to continue to build something that can grow beyond just yourself. Also are your publisher amenable to releasing the book under a creative commons license (http://creativecommons.org/), this would be a good gesture for somebody trying to get out of the "exchange" straight jacket in a legally robust way, and people like myself would still buy the book and you can decide where the proceeds go.
Michael comments ...
Find ways to get it published without money, distribute it without money then you'll have no dilemma....
The more I read about you the more you seem like a fame junky rather than someone whose heart is really in what he does. Living without money isn't a big deal, particularly when you've got plenty of friends (who'll pay you National Insurance etc) and media hype.
Aren't you the same guy who tried to travel Europe for free but gave up at Calais - says it all really. The only hope is that it has made a few more people think about how they live.....maybe its time for you to think a little more deeply too (reminding myself to the same thing as I write - all of us are hypocrites in one way or another)
Ari comments ...
I would not really encourage 4 with the information you present here. Having studied social collectives for a while I can honestly tell you that very few survive long term. Those that have have done so by diluting their ideals or by becoming enterprises.
Would it not be easier and more appealing to find a project that demonstrates how everyone can take themselves off the need for cash. Baby steps perhaps but ones that can be considerably scaled up?
That said I wish you all the success in 4 if you do pursue it and would love to participate.
lilianf comments ...
Your "dilemma" helps us to see that it's not all black and white, and it may actually not be MONEY itself that's f---ed us all up, but the attachment to it as a substitute for things of real value, such as love and community. I say use the money to do/make/create beauty/love/freedom.
jane comments ...
i completely understand your dilemma, the arguments between the head and the heart. These situations are never going to be easy because we are constantly being tested. Tune in to your 'higher self', the part of you which knows which way to turn, even if it doesn't make any sense to you at this present moment. This 'self' or 'soul' knows where you need to be, and what you need to do to get there! I've argued with mine loads, and as i get older-into my 50's now, i'm realising that i should just give up the unequal struggle!
I read your blog, and can see the inner turmoils which you describe. Think of it like this, the bees and animals just need the right habitat to survive( yes, i am a bee keeper so a bit biased!), they keep on doing what they need to do, in spite of the chaos, and changes going on around them.
If i had to make the choices you feel you are going to have to make, i would go for the land/community/trust/ options.Envisage and visualise that the right people, with the right piece of land will come( it will-honest!), and that the dream will become reality.
Dear mark, i am neither very old, nor very wise, but i know this now, if we lose our ability to dream we are nothing.If we lose our ability to believe that things will be provided for us by the 'universe', we are nothing.Life can be a struggle, and especially when turning dreams into realities can hit so many brick walls.Don't let the brick wall stand in front of your dream! Go for the land, it will be a safe and healing place.
sending you love form the riverbank on this bright and blustery day
jane x
Ana comments ...
You could ask first to the ones closer to you and the ones who have embraced and take fully part on the economy community and then trust your own judgment. It's not going to please everybody but IT WILL BE THE RIGHT DECISION!
Anne Howe comments ...
I believe you have the answer when you work through your thought process, in 4. Have you considered landshare in your search for land.
How about a trust fund?
Emma comments ...
4!! I think that would be brilliantly ironic (i.e ironic in a good way!) and I would definitely be interested in visiting/living in a real freeconomy community. Can't wait to hear more!
Kathryn00 comments ...
I think that the perfect piece of land WILL come along BUT, there's no telling when. I think options 3 and 4 are essentially the same - just a matter of timing. one demands you hand over the money immediately and one only when you've found something worth handing it over for. Is there no way you could ask your publisher to purchase the and for you adn pay you with that instead? That woudl at elast mean you have no part of the money process and if they're paying you in land do you avoid the 'being in the money system' part??
TDaly comments ...
I hate to say it, but you only have one life to live and I dont want to live mine living in a pit of mud, eating weevils and picking fleas out of my butt! While I dont aspire to own luxury brands and other pointless stuff, I love travelling (70 countries at last count), trying an endless array of food from all over the world and get great pleasure from driving every kind of vehicle from motorbikes to speedboats. That to me is living! What is the point of generation after generation just sitting around in the dirt trading loin cloths for rice?! There is a reason the human has a brain designed to advance the way we live.
Karen comments ...
Mark, if you go with 3, Present Sense would love a small slice to make some spoof adverts....(can't get to tonight's workshop - any writers want to help with scripts?). Flippancy apart, my view would be go with 4 if you want to see how far you can take the dream. Just need to find yourself a good freeconomist lawyer/accountant/administrator to set up and manage that trust....
jksmelaka comments ...
I think you should take option 4.
It is tough because I think 'owning' has more impact on a person than spending money. I trust you with that responsibility. Take the money yourself - don't allow yourself to be corrupted and spend it wisely.
Joseph K comments ...
Publish it for free on the internet. A paper book uses massive amounts of energy and resources, which seems to be the opposite of your current "life ethic".
Michele Minier-Leech comments ...
I feel you should go for the fourth option, which is buying a piece of land for setting up a Free-economy project. It would be an experience worth living. I believe it will happen if it feels right in your heart as well as your head! Good luck with it all. I do admire you for your courage, as I do not know anyone who has tried this voluntarily before!
jasoda comments ...
purpose of life is self realisation...then what to serve, when to serve, and who to serve become obvious in the moment. You then can no more shun your service than wonder if it is just the issue of living without money that makes you tick...
In this insane world there are sane and insane solutions in the business of service. And whereas your exemple is fab and v. timely. it is not an end game in itself.
Time place circumstance....you could use money to help others and contunue to show sustainability and ethical living.
My guru said 'more tangent than sustainable agriculture was sustainable consciousness..' so that you vibrate love to all and every being in your path...self realisation is the internal process that eventually repercutes on eveything and can save the planet with Love, so as a plain clothes Krisna devotee, I'd say feel what makes your heart sing and your decision will(continue) ro make others' heart sing..and more good work will ensue!
regards from a fellow spirit soul.
jasoda from Glastonbury
Jamie Colston comments ...
Ask for the land you need for the community from the universe and someone to exchange the proceeds from the book for the land plus whatever else they feel like donating without knowing how much money the book will make or how widely it will be sold. This in a sense keeps within the ideology of freeconomy. Someone is giving you something knowing the value of what they have to give but without knowing what they may or may not get in return.
I think keep being creative with a solution. 4 is a solid business option which I would agree with. However I don't think it really sticks by the principles of freeconomy. Whatever you do congratulations on doing what you do, it is inspiring and that is what really matters.
Jenny comments ...
I'm currently a teacher,working 4 days. Looking at finding more time to reflect by bowing out of the system. I admit to being scared of a life without money. i find myself calculating contingency plans...skills i could offer, stuff i could sell.. and already I'm buying myself back into the system before I've started. The bottom line is my heart yearns to be free of the hurry, push, the paper chase to have precious time to see the plants grow, birds sing, get my hands dirty, craft and create, feel the expansive sky...
I'm inspired Mark. I'm the most skilled practical person i know. If you can, i can.
Also i know that the universe will provide. Keep your sights on that perfect piece of land. it exists. Hold it's 'energy' until it comes to you. I have experience of this.
Go for it!
From Faerie Oracle comments ...
: Epona's Wild Daughter, Dorcha, is the sphinx, whose riddles must be answered lest we otherwise be destroyed by our own internal conflicts. Dorcha reminds us that we cannot go forward until we have faced something buried within us that is holding us back. Her presence in a reading tells us that finding and working through this is a task of some urgency. We can expect help in this from other people, from the faeries, and from our dreams, but we must be open to these difficult questions and answers and be ready to face things about ourselves that are not as we would wish them to be. She urges us to heal the unresolved issues about who we really are and what we truly want to be. This is part of the required course in Self Transformation 101 that we are all enrolled in here on Planet Earth. The answers to her riddles often come in a sudden burst of enlightenment, like the 'solution' to a Zen koan. We may watch a leaf fall or catch a glimpse of the tiny sliver of the new moon in the sky and suddenly be hit by the answer. Before that happens, we usually work long and hard upon the question, searching and digging for an answer. The realization, when we really have it, will be transformative; we will no longer be the people that we once were. You don't like this interpretation? Well, I have been telling you all along that we (you and I and everyone else) will all receive varying messages from the faeries in the cards. Yours may well differ from mine. Ask Dorcha what message she has for you--and don't be surprised if her answer is another question or riddle. She and I both wish you well in solving it with all our hearts.
val comments ...
why don't you set up a charitable trust/co-op to buy the land and then get the money paid into that.- be a director of the trust. Or find a trust/charity/co-op that already exist that would want to work with you on this project of buying the land for the community- your money would go to them for this project.
george comments ...
hi, maybe you could submit this to the Guinness book of records for the longest dilemma....sure they'll be more posts too. Sorry, just a silly moment. You made a decision yet M or are you takin time out to chill on the matter? ; )
Cameron Munro comments ...
I think if we work in a moneyless society then buying land in itself is controdictory, however in order to get the project up and running we will need to use the current system to get self providing. So I say pick you ildle piece of land and just start the thing.
SeaRain, SF,CA,US comments ...
IF you choose to exchange your creative and "intellectual property" for currency (Capitalism at it's finest,) why not use it to fund the administrative costs of establishing a not-for-profit "charity" that can assist in the creation of your Community as well as support causes that you believe in. If you have not already signed a contract, you might consider: granting the publisher a limited 12-18 month copyright after which the work becomes a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 2.0 UK: England & Wales License (or other CC that you are most comfortable with) and, having 1:5 books published made available and distributed for free.
Bob from Wales comments ...
For perspective, I pretty much did what you did back in 1980. It took money to do it (buying land and a caravan, etc).
Money is only a facilitator/medium of exchange/stored work/stored products. If we did not have money, we would need to invent it (why do you think promissary notes came into existance so fast in ancient times?).
I started off as a vegetarian, environmentalist fanatic, but when rabbits ate my vegetables, I ate rabbit, and when pigeons ate my wheat, I ate pigeon.
I now have no issues in this regard, whatsoever (basically, I grew up). To the extent, I even started doing very constructive environmental work, by keeping pests under control (crows, foxes, magpies, etc) at great personal financial expense (ammunition does not come free), and putting much of my ground out of production so it could help habitat.
Frankly, you are deluding yourself, and the '4 options' only confirm it. Are you really that naieve?
Communes basically do not work in the vast majority of circumstances. Those that take our money 'for good purposes' are normally a significant part of the problem, rather than any part of any solution, and denying them funding, is far more constructive, than providing them funding.
As such, as I expect you may guess, and for the best reasons possible, I will not be buying your book. I do rather object to individuals that do as much damage as John Seymour and his wife did all those years ago, with their books. It was inexcusable damage and downright tragedy, to so many families that I knew and tried my best to help out at that time. So we could do without a repeat, thanks very much, but unfortunately, I suspect you are likely to help create another such series of tragedies with a new batch of gullible idiots. Prove me wrong, prove you have the intelligence and common sense, to look over your boundary, and appreciate what your neighbours have been doing to ensure their families survival on the land for generations.
Because the last bunch of fools didn't, and paid an atrocious price as a result.
So instead, I will be sticking to my mantras "Starve the Beast, and Drain the Swamp" and "If in Doubt, Vote Them Out!"
I do wish you well, but there's an expression our American cousins use that might be particularly fitting - "Wake up and smell the coffee".
comments ...
in a way option 4 is really a sub-option of 3. It seems like the problem would be how to pay taxes on it once it is purchased and a community is living there money free.
Noel Canin comments ...
Hi Mark, I think that what you are doing is tremendous. I understand the dilemma you have regarding the money from the publishers. I also think that money and the "money world" are a reality and that within this reality we get to choose how we want to live. The money would get your a piece of land on which to create the community of your heartmind where you and others could live the way that feels right to you. This is our world, and the way it is could help you do what you want to do. Go for it. It won't make you less of a creator, less of a life leader and innovator, but it will enable you to offer a genuine possibility to a great many people who don't have the strength to do it on their own. Take care and much good gracious luck
kate comments ...
I like idea #4. But who would you give the money to before you purchased the land? If you continue to live moneyless you can't open a bank account for it because you would return back to the issue of being self-employed.
Suelo comments ...
Hey, I feel embarassed it's taken me this long to join this wonderful freeconomy thing you started.
As your moneyless comrade across the sea, I of so do not want to see you go back to money! There are thousands upon thousands of people already with money who can buy lands & build communities, and have done so, and make them "moneyless." Let them do their part, and encourage them. But you are in the most unique position. Don't spoil it, no matter what conventional wisdom or people's opinions tell you!! Why give up such a rare opportunity? You are not here to build an institution. You are here to cultivate a Spirit. I have heard it said that the devil's greatest weapon against truth is to create an institution of it.
I whole-heartedly agree with digger above, who says:
"Give your book away free to download on the Web--that way the most people possible will get to read it. As for your community, I'm with Cabbageman: to achieve it, you have to stick to the practice of your ideals. If you have to use money/profits to found your community, then you've already admitted to it's impracticality; you've conceded that doing without money lacks real robustness and viability."
Your moneyless brother across the sea.
Dago Schelin comments ...
Hey, Mark!
Gee, my comment is in the bottom of the pile!
I'd see your investing in land as something the slaves did for their own Emancipation: they bought their way out of slavery.
Honestly, do it. Former slaves who happened to make it outside the system could try to buy other slaves out of slavery.
You would be opening the gates for others to be freed as well... I guess.
A Brazilian hug, my friend!
George from Athens. comments ...
It is abundantly clear everyone, including yourself, says 'buy the land'....... but how and where? You need something that can be expanded upon. It needs to grow. It needs to be affordable. It needs to be fertile. It needs to be somewhere where you can do it and that means reasonable laws to allow it. You don't want to be kicked out being accused of being a 'hippy commune'. So where is that? Not the UK or N. Europe or USA. Try Romania. New member in the EU so has to follow EU laws of ownership and freedom of speech and whatever else the EU laws are on 'the pursuit of happiness' etc. The cheapest, fertile land in the EU. Go for it.
Baird in Canada comments ...
To join the chorus, go with some variant of the fourth option, mate. Fund your efforts via tax-exempt royalties funnelled into a charitable trust. ||
Do it only as long as you keep getting reinforcement for it (e.g., social support; increasing attention in the media, traditional and electronic; people who step forward to help with the material and labour aspects; expanding networks that link the like-minded in ways they've never been linked). Not to get too New Agey here, but if Gaia benefits, she'll make her support known, just as she has been making her displeasure known with weather disruptions. ||
You've also the hit the essential issues bang on by pointing out the insulating effects of layer upon layer of money conduits. The purpose of money is to buffer us from the consequences of our actions, freeing us to distance ourselves from all kinds of atrocities and inhumanity. All money-based economies are money-laundering systems. You not only point this out eloquently in the first few paragraphs of the Guardian article, but you also demonstrate where the logic of those deductions leads. You do that by living it openly. ||
If ever anyone appeared to be embodying a timely, hopeful calling, you do, my friend! It's so powerful that just about everyone who reads you, I'm guessing, feels the same calling in their guts that other commenters and I felt, willy-nilly. ||
Besides, as an economist in today's society, you have massive, built-in credibility. ||
The most important aspect of what you're doing is showing that it can be done, and not just by visionaries and crusaders. By regular folks, too, especially when acting as a social organism rather than as impotent atomised individuals. ||
In fact, that's what the whole Buddhist monk thing is about. Asian cultures have supported monastic living for 2500 years (in the case of Buddhism, though longer in the case of other wisdom-transmission traditions) for a good reason: not because it increased 'productivity' and endless, resource-gobbling technological 'innovations' that only distract us, nurture deep dissatisfaction, and speed up the demise of our habitat. And not solely because of putative karmic benefits. ||
Those cultures have supported principled monastic life (which, among Buddhists, is money-free) because they want to preserve continuous, irrefutable flesh-and-blood proof of an age-old, minimum-impact way to live contentedly and harmoniously. ||
Their society, like yours, is a perfect negative image of corporation-centred living, which looks as though it is not going to survive its second century. ||
The need to live sustainably and cash-free is hard-wired in us all. Only we've trained our conscious minds to forget it, to believe it's a thing of the past. ||
That's where you come in: ||
Verba docent, exempla trahunt, the proverb goes. (Words teach, examples transform.) ||
So please go with some version of Option 4. May you thrive in every imaginable non-cash way and inspire millions of others to invent ways to do the same.
Hank Simon comments ...
Before you settle on Option 4... using a Charitable organization to buy and settle on a plot of land ... I suggest that you spend a few months in two other communities - a Kibbutz in Israel and an old village in Okinawa. The Kibbutz, because it is similar in philosophy and they've addressed some of the challenges. Okinawa, because the farming communities with multiple generations of extended families have many lessons to teach.
Rach comments ...
As you said, it would be a step backwards to enter the 'world of money' to buy a peice of land which is for the purpose of escaping the 'world of money'. You should make it publicly known you are looking for land (this should not be hard considering the publicity already gained from your way of life), and someone who believes in your cause will donate with a bit of luck. Then you can give the proceeds of your book to a cause that you believe in, thus preserving your principles and conscience.
Lydia comments ...
Well done. I vote for option 3 or 4... depending on what 3 would be.
I don't know how I'd live without money... I'd have to give up my cell phone I guess, and make all my website clients pay for their own domain names and hosting directly... as well as give up my own domain names. Not sure I could do that.
John Britely comments ...
This is my first time reading your blog so my understanding of your intentions are a little limited, none the less, I think the "damage" is done when the book is sold. Since you decided to do that, the money will do the most good buying you land. The only other alternative as someone else suggested is to burn the money or destroy it is some other spectacular fashion. You could take the proceeds in copies of your book and give them away or trade them for other needs. Perhaps mail them to all economics grads this year or Congress or some other targeted group.
tracywragg@shaw.ca/ victoria, bc, canada comments ...
In my humble opinion, and yours is the first blog my humble opinion has pinioned, is this:
Options 1 and 2 seem like mute points since somebody will be profiting...
If somebody is bound to profit, option 3 or 4 would seem to be your best bet, as at least the money would be going towards something practical...
In my opinion, purchasing land could be your most ethical option...perhaps even more so than just waiting for someone to come along and give you land--it could be a long wait. If you write a book, you're making change and you're responsible for those changes you initiate. Plus, if used wisely, money can be a positive force, used for growth and even spiritual development. So I say go for option 4 without guilt! Gandhi might agree. He might even advise not to get too bogged down with particularities and unmoveable beliefs... keep your creativity and spirituality flowing and adapt as you go. Try not to stagnate and constrict your options with too many rules and unmoveable belief systems. Remain open to change.
I think it's entirely fascinating what you are doing.
One question...
what do you honestly miss the most about your old life?
tc
ullo comments ...
If you keep the money & buy land with it, think of it as money being converted into land, therefore it's no longer money. Definitely don't let your publisher or agent keep the money. Ultimately, you should follow your heart, your gut, ignore the mind!
Tyche comments ...
*Draw lots.
*You don't really know how any of this will turn out.
*You have narrowed the field to 4 choices. Good job...now: Let fate take a hand.
One Love comments ...
Put it into a fund for land, definitely. The same way you had to slightly step away from your rules and beliefs to get the book published and go with Oneworld - that's what you should do with the money from the proceeds. Of course it might feel like a "betrayal" at first. But, just as with the book, the results are what ultimately matter. This way your book will reach a wider crowd, and the same way your buying the land will benefit many, many others (people like me and my husband!) who are dying to take part in and try out the lifestyle of freeconomy. Imagine the movement this could start if made available for the average man and woman to try!
Pete comments ...
After considering the comments of cabbageman and claus, I ever so slightly have a better appreciation of the dilema and am not sure what option to decide myself. I would naturally go for option 4 but this option which I got from cabbagemans post, would not be staying pure to your ideals. I guess everything comes at a price, and that includes ideals. Money and the promise of what you can get with it can be all very enticing and corrupting. Best of luck deciding
Alon comments ...
Hello Mark,
Your Position is not an easy one but my suggestion to you is to go with option 4. I have experienced first hand what money can do to someone its scary and in fact sad, I was born in South Africa but I immigrated to Israel two years ago. I lived on basis of communism on a piece of land with no money AKA Kibbutz. I think this is the kind of living that you would want to create with the money earned. please contact me if you would like a further explanation.
enjoy your day.
Laurence Shorter comments ...
Hi you brave person. I think your message reveals its own answer.
Laurence Shorter comments ...
Hi you brave person. I think your message reveals its own answer.
Laurence Shorter (trying again!) comments ...
Hi you brave person. I think your message reveals its own answer. "No matter what happens, I won't be accepting the money for myself - I will be setting up a fund to ironically buy a piece of land out of the world of money and private property."
It is ironic, in a sense, and you know it! ...That deep down the only really satisfying outcome for you (and proof of your whole new way of being) is for it to come another way; to 'happen' - not through the system but (like the legs of your free food table) by barter or foraging or good will or donation. I personally would never face this dilemma as I would trouser the money toute suite. You however are making the stand to embody this change - and you have already done it - go all the way! Soon you will be on TV, if only for your totally amazing stance about the book money! So the message will get out there all right.
ps, I have written and sold a book myself and there isn't much money to speak of anyway, unless you have a huge hit.
stay with it
Laurence
Joan of Money-Free Living comments ...
I too resonate with the words of Suelo (thanks Suelo), Mitjak K, binnimanni and cabbageman. This is the email I sent to Mark when the blog first came out:
"Mark,
I would like to first say something in the gentlest tone and with the utmost respect,
The ends doesn't have to justify the means..
Contradictorily, I will go on to say, I don't believe there are any right or wrong decisions or actions; only experiences picked. Whatever we decide, we will process the emotions associated with that decision. This will bring us to a place of understanding that we would get to no matter what path we took. It will also bring us to a more evolved physical reality.
For instance, say I was offered a job in a bank to buy a vehicle to get me out of the city and into the country more often. If I took it, I would feel all the feelings associated with it. First, I would feel the joy of being in nature more, and second I would feel all the yucky feelings associated with working and working in an industry I don't support (as well as the guilty feelings I would have of inflicting this frustrated person on other employees). The great thing is that if I just process these emotions and let them go as deep as they want without denying them, I would learn new things about myself and how the world truly works, and my situation would probably shift to something better.
If I choose not to work, bop around from friend to friend's, help out where I can and engage in whatever comes along that I enjoy, I could experinece all the feelings of joy and freedom, not to mention hope for a new way; but I would also have to process fear as well. If I allow myself to fully feel these emotions, I would learn a great deal about myself and the universe.
Now, it may seem like both options are equally viable options, but I do believe it is better to go with your gut more often (which usually has the grand ideas for both ourselves and the planet). Evolution is probably faster this way, and if you are anything like me, you can't appease youself into doing things that aren't a good fit for very long. You see, I believe the soul makes decsions in the here and now. The head makes decisions for the future. The soul believes it can have a reality right now because it can. The only thing preventing us from what we want in this moment is that our head thinks it has to unfold after this long projectory of happenings.
Like right now, for instance, I too am looking for a means to make my move to the country a reality. I will probably work to do it, but I know I can just as easily manifest this without a job as well. The land, house etc. We don't need much to live on.
Problem is, when I Google "manifest land" few entries come up....no one even wants to play with that one. I am more than ready to acknowledge my power in creating my wonderful earth-bestowed rights to land, but I don't feel eager to do it alone. The weight of all the laws and beliefs of the world, not to mention thick history surrounding land are quite heavy. Communicating and dreaming with others would help indeed.
If no one is ready I will sit with the fear myself and hopefully others will draw from my experience. I probably won't get much credit, but we create potentials all the time for others just by walking around with our dreams (and a belief in those dreams). Nothing is impossible, and if I can manifest a Frank Sinatra CD just by thinking about it (like last week!), the only thing stopping me from manifesting something big must be my belief that bigger dreams require more "psychic power". Get rid of that belief and I get rid of the obstacle. I believe we just have to make a choice and say to ourselves. "I choose free land". When it stops feeling like a command and starts feeling like a given then that's when it can happen.
What do you say Mark, what if you gave up the money? ( or just felt the ramifications of that choice?) Can you trust that you can make a money-free dream happen on the final big frontier - land? Wouldn't that move mountains Mark? What if you put your book out as a free e-book? Can you trust that it will get to the right people just because you desire it too? If the answers are no or not sure, can you trust that it doesn't matter as long as you do something. Your soul will keep you in check.
Heavy words written here by a girl who still uses money, but I don't give up on myself or people like you. What we propose goes beyond money and into so many important areas of human harmony. And it is all tangible.
I would be excited be on your Village team if you'll have me. I think it is time to move towards creating this for ourselves and others. I may not do it in England, but the paradigm will surely carry over to my province and where other Freeconomists live. It is more than possible to have a community of sharing, loving people who honor simplicity and most of all gentleness in their relations with the world.
When the onslaught of responses slows Mark, let me know what you think of my views on how it is so very possible for all of us to attain the magical dreams of our childhood."
Since sending this email and reading your responses I have shifted some in my opinions and even turned down a job. I see changes in my own town that cannot be explained by pure luck alone, but I know that I will still aim with my heart to having the kind of community Mark talks about here in Canada much sooner than later.
I think it all comes down to what are the beliefs in the Freeconomists when it comes to manifesting, not what are we willing to wait for the world to give us. Land and natural resources are the final money-free living frontier. Who ever decided that it wasn't available to all of us?
Thanks for listening,
Warmly, Joan
jean-michel vernay comments ...
as an individual it is easier to get through the net of capitalism but as some people mentioned, land owning means paying taxes?! maybe that should be your next quest, what about property and the system that prevents us from being free, we are
born slaves to a system not equal! So go with the first gut/heart idea you creatively/intuitively thought off in the first place, the original and right down to what you believe in! Nature will take care of the rest, it's testing your beliefs, your trust in life? is it a test as well? any good original ideas and they aren't that many in the world attract money in our world and then all it's positive energies get suck by it, ending being just a copy of a copy of a copy with no power at all!!!
Why not donate money to people that do good things in the world, journalist that fight for freedom, community that already have projects, people that think alternatively like Viktor Schauberger and Steiner would have needed money to finance so good projects, buy back the
land in the world under a charity trust in the name of mother earth! how did they native americans managed to get some land? maybe buy some land from someone and don't pay any taxes, any commission to lawyers and stand your ground until the government, police, army comes after you and wait for the people to be a bigger force and be behind you.
Create a bank where people can put there money where money will not be invested at all! maybe only lend as micro-credit with 0% benefits, or people who have amazing projects,
people that want to turn their land into organic farming and need to buy it! Or create a bank where money would just be destroy as soon as deposited?!
published the book for free, indeed is a straightforward idea with the internet!
A lot of people want change and agree with what you say or think but i think also lots of people need to be taught and educated as well in a different way, we need solution, examples, way to learn, some people are stuck in the money but they are willing and need some kind of help to transition as well and balance towards a different way of living. it's not because then u use money that what you do is suddenly impure or whatever,
don't give a shit about what others say, even if you have to use money at some point! who
creates the rules! you! you can change them anytime! i know about ethics and beliefs and
all but hey nobody is perfect either, critics they do fuck all with their lives anyway so let them be. how can people with no money can read your book?
Take the path of least resistance ;)) Lao Tzu
i think the failing of people like Tesla, Schauberger, Reich and few more was in there
trying to hide and patent or remain owner of what they had created? those ideas and inventions should have made be free to everyone.
i think if you could run some sort of community parallel to normal standards like
brick/mortar with land and more like the internet, something that exist but that is still virtual, just a network of people that is trying to avoid the most they can using money, then if that can spread, the community is boundless, if people all go to self-democracy we might get to a point where politician will not have any influence and will disappear, whereby money owner (rich people) will only have themselves to support and deal with, there economy will crash but not the freeconomy because it will be strong in place.
Maybe visit a community like findhorn, see and ask how they do with their ethics, ideas,
but on a community level, the only thing a community does is not matter what find a way to
survive respecting their ethics as much as they can and they care only for their community
as it is limited in power in some way, whereby what people suggest is that this need to
change the world! be the change you want the world to be - Ghandi :))
if you buy the land, you have to keep paying for it, maybe the next challenge is that?
make the government stop their wasting of everything and irresponsibilities.
plus you are counting of the fact to sell the book! but that is the future, not the now! money makes you live in expectation not in the now!
"what would love do now? answer me!" (Wayne Dyer)
i personally refuse to pay taxes or any whatsoever for it to be wasted by some politicians who don't give a fuck. i've been out of the system for 3 years and been living off from savings, donation, family and friends, i don't owe much apart from clothing and i do holistic massage for free, although moving on to being paid for it so i can pay for my own food, but the rent! the roof! i feel i can't escape from it! i have to pay for it no matter where i go, it's not like i can just build a strawball house in a forest somewhere, i live in a world where i was robbed from that the day i was born! (not playing the victim here and kate dixon has a point here, we need to integrate all concept of the society but we need to find a way to transcend it too)
don't let people tell you, it can not be done, don't set yourself any limit because then you'll be limited by it :)))
why not take the money and join the zeitgeist movement or some other like the Club of Budapest...
anyway good luck!
ps: i am for the native american way of thinking, land does not belong to man but man belong to the land, same with water, company should not be able to buy water sources....
Rachael from the US comments ...
Number 4 seems to be the most ethical thing to do, as it would perpetuate the change in the world that we would like to see. However, if I were you, I might look into the possibility of purchasing the land from another country, one not involved in a war. Although I don't know how much more complicated or expensive that would be.
Another idea, there are already numerous "freeconomy" communities around the world that many people are not aware of. You may be interested in finding one that has already been established and is doing well to, perhaps ADD land/solar power equipment/etc. to?
Whatever you do, best of luck! And God bless.
comments ...
Can you agree with your publisher that copies may be downloaded freely from the internet in order not to force your dilemma on those who would prefer similar choices - to read your words without dealing in money to access them?
Also, you can consider the money by the higher values of what justfortheloveofit is about - not about profit, but about love. That means that if you choose to sell a book, there will be exchanges of energy termed money - whether it passes your hands or not, your actions will have instigated this and therefore there's a degree of responsibility there.
But instead of looking upon the transaction with dread or fear, supersede this with the strength of higher purpose - which is LOVE. Meaning - what you're doing in a sense is reaching a friendly hand out to each and every individual who buys your book, and making a trade - energy for energy in a system of exchange.
What happens is, a collective pool of support generates funds for a collective endeavour - the purchase of communal land for freeconomists.
This is a donation then, what you've been seeking - not by one individual, wealthy and generous enough to give it over, the money made to buy the land originally having happened somehow anyway by whatever historical means - but instead given by those interested, the informed community itself - in manifold clasps of your hands reaching out in agreement over the sale of this book.
The charity route absolves easily your direct contact with the money by surrendering the notion of ownership - yes - but money's still stirring by the fact of putting this out through a traditional means of publishing.
How it's framed for others to participate in the sale of your book then becomes key. They can be empowered, instead of potentially compromised.
what that money entails in karmic terms - the investment of those who support
Factual Solutions comments ...
Hi there Mark
I’ve Just read your post
It’s not the kind of stuff you read very ofter :)
I’m sure I’ve email you before. I’ve told you about the Zeitgeist Movement. I am sure you have seen their documentary called Zeitgeist Addendum.
Peter Joseph is the head of the movement and, some weeks ago, during a radio show he runs weekly, he answered a question about “fund raising to the movement” with – “I don’t need your money, all I am asking you is your time” – it is incredible, we have hundreds of Humanitarian Organizations “killing” for any donation and on the other hand we have the Zeitgeist movement with over 350,000 members willing to donate but unable to do so as the movement does not accept random donations – Peter mentioned that random donations, without a set project, are scams, and I agree. But the idea about get a piece of land through donation to start the Test City is real and they are open for it.
Your idea to start a community where food, friendship, fun, music, education, dance, art, skillsharing, experience, foraging, scavenging is at the core” – is great – but I must mention that we have already a ton of Ecovillages and Transition Towns that are following your philosophy. I just love to mention Auroville and I have a massive list of transition towns too (I am moving to one in 2010). You must know about this list but I will post it anyway
http://transitiontowns.org/TransitionNetwork/TransitionCommunities
About money – I have, in my mind, the idea that money must not be spent but invested and a perfect example I’ve found is here
http://www.zerocarbonhouse.com/Home.aspx
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2008/may/19/reas.zero.carbon.house
Whatever you do with the money you receive…will the right thing, I am sure about it.
Regards
FS
http://miniurl.org/HZc
nothing comments ...
this is awesome. i just thought whether such a living was possible in this world, but you have made it happen my friend. I was not looking for you blog , but had just stumbled upon it by chance. but i would not call it a chance as i strongly believe that ther is not such thing as coincidence. three cheers for you man.
Jo comments ...
Go with the land, it is a win win situation, we all have to make some sacrifices and this can be yours!
Dave G comments ...
Well Mark
Love what you’re doing. If it was me I'd buy some land you know the old saying you'll never go hungry with land plus you will have something to show for all you have done.
From an old pal that worked with ya in New York.
David Gallagher
Oh ya if you need any safety advise let me know.
jason palmer comments ...
if you read 'off-grid' by nick rosen you will see the problem is getting planning permission, buy that book for details of lawyers who will fight your case !
embers comments ...
If you sell your book aren't you just producing something that's wasteful of natural resources and expecting people to spend money on it? It will take a lot of money to set up the infrastructure for a self-sufficient community. To be completely self-sustaining you will need many ethical people of wide-ranging skills and such a large community would have an enormous environmental impact on any plot of land. The issue of community rules would be a headache and how would you deal with freeloaders who don't pull their weight? If you cut yourself off completely from the money-orientated world you will survive on a very basic subsistence level and possibly alienate those of us who have commitments and can't give up the world of money. I thought your aim here was to create a freeconomy community which permeates normal society and changes it from within, not to start your own country, separate from the rest of us. I'm disappointed you are even considering this. Leave the land for the wildlife.
Just_Dave comments ...
I think that #4 would be the most beneficial to you and everyone that you hope to affect with the freeconomy community. I admire what you have achieved and hope to achieve in the future...stay strong and do not let what the critics have to say because this is your vision to live without money to whatever degree you see fit. So if you have to re-enter in order for your vision to fully become a reality then so be it. As long as you do not lose focus of what your end result will be...good luck!!
SparksFly comments ...
Option 4 is the way to go, mate. Then, if some donor does come along to donate more land, you can simply start a second community.
kib comments ...
Like so many, I'd vote for #4.
1. you've proven that you are an innovator, a good 'front man' for an experiment, unafraid of hardship or challenge. It's harder to do these things with more people, but essential that we figure out how. You are not only in a financial position to expand the experiment, you have the temperament for it.
2. At some point, you may need to update your infrastructure, and that could potentially require the investment of capital. I know that's not the point, at all, but if you're leading the way into new territory, do you want to box yourself into a corner where you are completely unable to utilize a necessary resource? That seems like throwing over potential progress for purism, which is unlikely to be a viable way of creating large scale change in the world.
kib comments ...
ETA: Example: your community really needs a second solar panel so more people have light. I am a freeconomist myself, but I need to pay my property tax. So I trade you my extra solar panel for enough green pieces of paper to make the government happy. Occasionally, those green representations of effort are all that will do.
Sabine the earthgirl comments ...
I think Freeconomic is an AWESOME word.
And I think you need to set up your community. Money is not totally evil - it can help create things to and you have the power to use it for a good and vibrant meaningful cause. Go for it!
I wrote about you on my blog! You rock. I'm in awe.
www.sabinetheearthgirl.wordpress.com
Jason comments ...
I love this post Mark, and I truly appreciate and support what you're sharing. I know whatever choice you make will be the best, and that everything can change in an instant.
This also encourages me on my own path :)
Thanks!
David Michael (member) comments ...
Mark what a superb blog! I can really relate to your mental torture as I have often gone through the same thing. Well kind of.... Personally I feel that land should be donated as then it will be true to its purpose and yes if you believe 100% in the magic of what you are practicing it is more than possible to attract the right benefactor. You see what you want to achieve is to align yourself as much as possible with your truth. The more you do so the less ammunition the naysayers will have to throw at you. And who wants to battle with pessimism anyway. There must be those who question this site too. If you live without money then how do you sponsor this site? The same will happen for the land. Cancer research establishments receive vast fortunes in donations from people who believe that it is a just cause so why not your land too? That is as just a cause as any and I would argue one that is a whole lot juster as it will become a place where people can connect, learn real skills, put 'rubbish' to good use and begin to wake people up to the legacy of lies,deceptions and false beliefs which are fed to us from birth. I hope all that doesn't sound too profound but its a true reflection of how I feel right now. Also don't beat yourself up too much over rights and wrongs, there is no reason why things can't be done in stages. It is a bit like trying to fast. There are those who try to fast for a long time to make up for all the wrongs in one go and they usually crash before during or afterwords. And there are those who take things one step at a time and gradually build up to a healthier pattern of living.
Thanks for a great blog
David
Rowifi comments ...
You have my vote for what you are doing. We all need less and we are all too motivated by materialistic ideals.
However, I can't help thinking that you will simply be restarting a cycle where your 'community' will have to begin bartering 'this for that' - as you already are doing in a small way.
In the long term, you would end up simply trading between members using a new form of 'money' if your community is to grow.
How will you ensure that everyone equally pulls their weight in the community? Human nature will outcast those who take but dont give - and therefore you end up with people wanting to ensure the givers get more than the takers... however imperfect - money is supposed to do this.
Human nature being as it is - much progress is the result of mans 'greed' and without it we would simply be living in the dark ages - poor medicine, little or no science.
I would love to be living in a 'futuristic, star-trek' environment where there is no need for money and we spent our time for the benefit of us all. I think we need to move a great deal forward socially before we can achieve that.
I can't see how hiding away in a moneyless environment will take the rest of us there.
Rob
William S comments ...
From Cape Town, South Africa....thank you Mark for motivating the already burning desire to live in the world not of it. I shall now read your blog (so far only seen the headlines)
Venkataraman comments ...
History repeats itself.
Ramana Maharshi, a Sage in India, had lived his life perfectly without money. Study the past models and make a decision. Ideal living was already realized by our ancestors. Very few, though.
But there were the models.
He doesn't like or dislike money but he didn't attach to money and material life and he didn't attach to the spiritual life, either.
Beyond both, there is a trascendental life style
but it is very natural. We don't need to hate or love
money. If you need it, you can use it, if you don't need it, you don't have to use it.
Your experiment was very fresh and creative to the people who are addicted to money like me.
But in Buddhism they say they can sum up Buddha's teaching in one sentence.
The one sentence is
"Don't attach to anything."
Even though it seems to be very good, nice and profound, the moment we attach to it, we became the victims and slaves of it.
A life without money is good to the people who are
addicted and attached to the money oriented life.
But a life with some money is also good to the people who are suffering from absolute poverty.
This is just my opinion, I wish you make a consideration so as to make a wise decision.
Pappelschnee comments ...
You could just give away the book for free, if you are going to write it anyway. You could easily sail around the money problem, you wouldn't use the system of selling and buying. If you stick to the idea of buying land, people could donate money if they want (and are able to). But I believe, that you don't have to pay tribute to the system by buying land and trying to "create" a space that is actually already there... It can also work without using money as well.
Vered comments ...
Hi Mark;
It seems to me that you have combined the ways of living of: Kibutzniks, Romanis, Henry David Thoreau etc. and could add a version of "The Community Exchange System" : CES money is public domain money. It is not 'owned' or controlled by anyone and as such belongs to the commons.
It is 'created' by the traders who use it, not by a third party outside the circuit of buyers and sellers (banks) who do so for their own parasitic gain.
When money is proprietary it confers the money power on those who 'create' and control it; when it is in the public domain the money power resides with its users, who can ensure that it is used for the public good.
Recover the money power by starting a new CES exchange in your area. Let the community decide how its efforts will be deployed instead of faceless and unaccountable individuals who do so for their private gain at others' expense.
Money and credit belong to the commons. Recapture these powerful forces for the common good.
Interesting to see that Britain does not have an exchange. The Exchange promotes self sufficient communities, food production and local trade.
At the moment I have a well known designer redecorate our business venue in exchange for 'Talents' I earned by offering herb plants I grew and accepting Talents from my clients. I could never have afforded her services in 'real' money. I have been a member of CES for about two years and my trade outside the Monetary System is increasing steadily.
There are many ways to create societies free of slavery and I salute you all the way!!!
Vered Gartushka
Cape Town, SA
Jayanthi V. comments ...
Folks around me think that I am loony,when I want to use money minimally for survival. The chaos in today's world is for most part driven by the craze for possessing more and more money. Your Freeconomy concept is wonderful, when humans can help each other in living a free and wholesome life. Yes, do publish your book, buythe land and let people who believe in your concept of Freeconomy, come to live there. Afterall how much does one require to lead a simple, peaceful life in this world?
renan comments ...
Maybe you´re letting your pride get in the way... if you are aiming a larger goal, you have to get your hands dirty. If your ideal is about sacrifice, sacrifice yourself by being contaminated with money for a short period of time. You said it yourself: you live in a money driven world, and some stuff can only be achieved by those rules. So sacrifice yourself, take the money and buy the land. Trying to find another alternative that only serves to make you feel good about yourself and achieve the same end, is a sort of narcisism. You have to decide, whether your philosophy is for yourself, or to all others you want to affect. Go with the most important.
Sorry if I was rude... it´s just a thought of someone not in your shoes.
Keep up.
Carlos comments ...
It´s very dificult to believe this, but it´s realy? congratulations. i am tired to be moneyman every day. thanks.
Emma comments ...
follow your heart, always follow your heart. As i've recently learnt with my four month old daughter, sometimes it's necessary to sacrifice a 'principle' for the higher good, if you have a solution to hand why would you not take it?
our community of friends is looking to manifest the kind of place you are thinking of, alot of people are. you will have all the support you need. make your vision a reality, mark.
Baba comments ...
Hi Mark, hearing you on the G Ryan Show today lifted my spirits. I love you laughing at your self! Long may that sense of humor see you through what must occassionally be challenging times to say the least! I'm contacting you because I believe in what you are doing. I befriended a man who lives on an island south west of Ireland, some years ago. I have the wonderful experience of spending time in his life for two years. During that time I learned that it is possible, and comfortably so, to live without bills, electricity, or piped or wired services. There I too experienced washing in the sea or beneath a black bag "heated" by the sun.. toilet facilities were met by a compost toilet, I ate from the garden and proceeds of bartering his skills with local fishermen. My diet was excellent. Illness kept at bay by nutrition, like you say, and daily entertainment provided by the outdoors, nature, art, playing acoustics, singing and gathering provisions. I was closer to nature there and at that time than any other in my life. I am forty five, a Yoga teacher and if I could, I'd give living without money a go. (He was the cleanest, sweetest smelling man I ever knew!) the environment I describe, encouraged my closet artist too, and the results hang framed over the mantel in my home. I hope you continue your goal, I wish you all the best. babamglynn@hotmail.com
Mary Janis comments ...
We will ALL be without money soon enough! Ha! Ha! See ya in the wilderness, my Mishpochah!
tekiah
John comments ...
Mark let me tell you why we are all here listening to you in the first place-- it's because your different your working outside the system, we need a leader to follow and we will follow if you lead, that's why we're here. We're all waiting to see what are you going to do next, publishers ,individuals, companies and politicians, believe me i heard about you in Italy, in the italian gossip mags.
Question is What are you going to do-- Take the money OR keep going